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Not with a capable GM. They have a core forward group. Smart drafting and/or trading can improve the D in short order.

Green, Booth, Jensen, Nyquist, Ouellet, Mrazek, Witkowski. I think that's the realistic list of trade bait candidates. And I'm ok with that. I don't think blowing it up is feasible, because I don't think any one of our bigger contracts can be moved without us retaining salary or throwing in a sweetener or taking back someone else's problematic contract. Might as well just keep those players and let them guide us to a couple more seasons like the one we're currently having. It'd be one thing if we had a number of stud prospects knocking on the door and we had to make room for them on the roster, but that isn't the case. As for the draft...we do need to get lucky, yes. We do need to hit a home run or two or three over the next few drafts, yes. But I feel like a lot of Wings fans are a little too hung up on picking 1st/2nd/3rd overall. Getting lucky in the draft doesn't only mean picking in the top three. Consider: Erik Karlsson was drafted 15th overall Mark Stone -- 178th Mike Hoffman -- 130th Nikita Kucherov -- 58th Brayden Point -- 19th Mikhail Sergachev -- 9th P.K. Subban -- 43rd Roman Josi -- 38th Filip Forsberg -- 11th Vladimir Tarasenko -- 16th Colton Parayko -- 86th Mark Scheifele -- 7th Nikolaj Ehlers -- 9th Jacob Trouba -- 9th Zach Werenski -- 8th Alex DeBrincat -- 39th Duncan Keith -- 54th Mathew Barzal -- 16th David Pastrnak -- 25th Brad Marchand -- 71st Patrice Bergeron -- 45th David Krejci -- 63rd Sean Monahan -- 6th Johnny Gaudreau -- 104th Dougie Hamilton -- 9th T.J. Brodie -- 114th Ivan Provorov -- 7th Shayne Gostisbehere -- 78th Sean Couturier -- 8th Claude Giroux -- 22nd Rasmus Ristolainen -- 8th Anze Kopitar -- 11th Vincent Trocheck -- 64th James Neal -- 33rd Shea Theodore -- 26th Evgeny Kuznetsov -- 26th John Carlson -- 27th Oliver Ekman-Larsson -- 6th Clayton Keller -- 7th Derek Stepan -- 51st Brock Boeser -- 23rd Hampus Lindholm -- 6th Rickard Rakell -- 30th Brent Burns -- 20th Logan Couture -- 9th Joe Pavelski -- 205th Kris Letang -- 62nd Jamie Benn -- 129th John Klingberg -- 111th Justin Faulk -- 37th Max Pacioretty -- 22nd Brendan Gallagher -- 147th Shea Weber -- 49th Ryan McDonagh -- 12th Dylan Larkin -- 15th Anthony Mantha -- 20th Andreas Athanasiou -- 110th Not a single one of those players was a top-five selection. Food for thought.

There is no limit to LTIR. The 10% rule is that you can only exceed the cap by 10% during the off-season. You can't use LTIR then, so it could potentially prevent us from using the maximum relief for both Franzen and Kronwall, though in practice we would most likely be promoting some kids from GR and they wouldn't count toward the off-season cap anyway. Very unlikely we would have any problem. However, Kronwall has been holding up well so far this year, and playing decently too. LTIR is probably a moot point.

I think everyone would agree that our biggest need is defense, but if we end up with 4 or 5 picks in the first two rounds, I definitely wouldn't take all defensemen. I think our first pick should definitely be a defenseman, especially considering the quantity of quality defensemen at the top of the draft next year, but I'd mix a couple forwards in there for sure. It's not like we're stacked up front. We have three or four promising young top six forwards, but that's about it. Unless everything else is equal, we should be taking best player available in my opinion.

Yeah, Mantha was older in his draft year. I agree on Ras. I think he'll have to really up his game, and come into camp next season and dominate. He was good in training camp this year, and he produced, but he was far from dominant. I'd love nothing more than to see him make the team sooner than later though. Regarding next year's defense, you're forgetting about Dahlin...

I was thinking of the fact that Mantha only went back to the QMJHL for 1 year after being drafting, but that must have had something to do with where his birthday falls and he must have turned 20 before that potential 4th CHL year. But I think you're right because Ras will only be 19 when next season starts. Anyway, I meant more that I doubt that he'll make the team next year. Especially when guys coming off KILLER junior years, like AA and Mantha, failed to do the same in that situation. Maybe with the team being in a different place it'll be different, but I think hell have to really get it going to be in consideration. And agreed on Svech. Now you guys have me considering next year's D corp being the same minus Green...ugghh. Then again maybe HIcketts, Hronek or Cholowski grab a spot? Still rough

With a legit NHL coach, and I can't see any way Blashill is brought back next year, I think Carlson would still be a legit #1 here. His point total might drop, but the roster isn't as bad as it's played. They'd need a player to replace Green, maybe even bring Green back after he's traded, but Carlson added to the defense would go a long way to solidifying it. Everyone else would slide down a notch role-wise, which would help performance. Bottom line is a guy like Carlson is the closest thing to an elite guy they're going to get barring grabbing one in the draft, which is more luck than anything else, or a Chara-type heist in a trade.

In scenario B, would we have De Haan or Cole?

Newsflash: we don't have deHann or Cole Followup news flash: no one in the league gives a flying duck about dehann or cole

Saying Carlson isn't a legit #1 is wrong. Is he elite, best of the best, Lidstrom/Pronger/Borque level? Nope. But he's better than almost every other d-man in the league. Name 20 who are clearly better and I'll concede that he's "just" a #2.

I'm sorry man, but I just don't trust your judgement when it comes to D. You have been so wrong so many times. From saying that KarIsson is a "top 10 D man" and "overrated" to saying that "Daley is toast" to now implying Doughty and Carlson are the same, you have proven to be way off with your assessments. Its not that I dont want a top 30 d-man, if we were able to sign any of the big 3, I would be good with that. What I dont want is for our team to handcuff ourselves cap wise more then we already are. Look, IF Carlson signs here at a reasonable deal, and IF we are able to trade E, and IF Kronwall did go to LTIR, I would be ok with signing him, but those things are not going to all happen. Our focus right now needs to be shedding cap (not adding), signing our RFA's, and trying to acquire elite players through the draft or UFA. I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with DeHaan and Cole. You are talking about them like they are a huge part of the solution here, but I dont think I have heard anyone....media, bloggers, or even posters agree or even sing a similar tune. They are middle tier players, and to buyout middle tier players, only to bring in more expensive middle tier players IMO is pointless. Your plan will make us a 6th or 7th seed, but I dont want to go back to 2013. We need a plan at this point to go back to 2008. You build your nucleus first, then you add around it. You want to do it the other way around.

I'd be completely okay with this, as long as the return is decent for each.

I can see us moving four players at the deadline. Green, XO, Nyquist/Tatar, Mrazek.

5 points in his last 2 games all assists our future Captain, Loving Larks more and more.

I appreciate you Dylan.

Doing all that and he's only 21 years old.

Do you even watch the games? From what I have seen Daley has been a good addition this year, and appears to be a great 2nd pairing guy. Most others on here are happy with him, and there was an article today in the FREEP talking about how he has helped us. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/12/20/detroit-red-wings-trevor-daley-very-easy-play/969077001/ This is the point I was trying to make in the post above, you are making our players sound worse then they are, so your mediocre players that you want to bring in look like giant upgrades. But its not true.

While I completely agree that AA and Mantha need ice time, it's just a testament to Larkin's work ethic in my opinion. Mantha and AA look invisible at times, but Larkin always has that hustle regardless of whether or not he's putting up points, his drive is evident.

You're trying too hard to fix this team overnight. We don't need to add pieces next year unless they are "major" pieces. No more signing middle tier type players. Buying out E, whats the point? We dont need cap space right now, we will need it in 2-3 years. We have tons of very good 2nd/3rd line talent, there is no need for more. Bottom line, we need elite guys. Whether we acquire them through the draft or via UFA (ie. JT, Karlson, OEL, Doughty etc.) that is what we need to do. Rather then overpaying more middle of the road guys, I'd rather just play the kids. Now if we acquire a game changer, I will change my tune.

Come on man, I get you are down on the team, but no need to be over the top. 29 points in 34 games is nowhere near "average". And your comment is not even present tense.

Don't know why you think positivity on Larkin is misplaced. He is doing well and developing well at center in his first full year there. Maybe if you said not elite, fine, but average doesn't fit. He's 55th in points and that's definitely better than an "average NHL'er". (21 non goalies per rosterX31 teams=651 NHLers) 55th of 651 shouldn't be average in any consideration. And he's in the top 30 for forwards' ATOI (28th). That's a good sign for him becoming a number 1 center. In terms of icetime, he's already handling the amount of a #1. Among the fastest skaters in the league. Plays PP and PK which is kind of rare and only 3 players have more than his 2 shorthanded goals. (FYI our PP is still 8th despite our struggles, PK is meh at 15th) (nhl.com stats) He's doing well.

More process, and don't mess with the Swedish Mafia.

Yeah PETA can suck it. If I buy a dead cephalopod, I can eat it, throw it on the ice, or dress it up and have a tea party with 9 tea cups. What happens between a man and his octopus is his own business.

Here is my idea then: throw PETA members on the ice Best response would be to throw even more on the ice and make a big deal out of it.