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Guys, I am as pissed off as most Red Wings fans today out of our lack of ability to sign (any) big name free agents, and even more pissed off that our only substantial move was re-signing Kyle Quincey to a contract that pays him as much money as Jonathan Ericsson, more money than Johan Franzen and only 0.5 Million less than Nick Kronwall makes (still a top 10 defenceman in the league). But as much as we can complain about Quincey, and predict that next season will be a complete disaster - I am seeing more and more tank for McDavid posts - I ask myself when did Matt Niskanen become worthy of a 7 year contract? Isn't Dan Boyle 37 years old coming off a 36 point season on a great team where he was a -8? Why did the world end when we didn't sign these two? Lets just try to use some perspective before we completely turn our backs... Last season, in a 16 team conference - we finished 1 point behind 6th place PHI and 3 points behind 5th place NYR (who eventually played in the Stanley Cup Final) while having an historically bad (by our standards) record of 5-9 in the shootout. More importantly, we also had our top 3 forwards (when measured by salary) D, Z and Weiss miss 37, 37, and 56 games respectively. I hate to make excuses, but of the 6 teams in our conference that had more points than us last year, not a single one of them could relate to our injury situation (in terms of man games lost to star players). For ex. the top 6 scorers on the Boston Bruins all played in atleast 78 games, and 5 of them played in 80 or more - please don't tell me this would not have helped us or improved our position in the standings. If we look ahead to next season - what do we have to be optimistic about? Well, we haven't really gotten worse since last year... No we haven't signed any big names either, but we still haven't lost anyone yet. (Alfie remains to be seen). Can you say the same about... #1 BOSTON - Subtractions: Thornton, Iginla, Meszaros, Moore. Additions: None. #2 PITTSBURGH - Subtractions: Jokinen, Vitale, Orpik, Glass, Engelland, Niskanen, Conner. Additions: Comeau, Ehrhoff. #3 TAMPA BAY - Subtractions: Lindback, Aulie, Desjardins. Additions: Nabokov, Boyle, Blunden, Stralman. #4 MONTREAL - Subtractions: Briere, Gorges, Vanek, Gionta, Blunden, Dubnyk. Additions: Parenteau, Gilbert, Malholtra. #5 NEW YORK - Subtractions: Pouliot, Stralman, Richards, Boyle, Bickel. Additions: Hunwick, Glass, Kostka, D. Boyle. #6 PHILADELPHIA - Subtractions: None. Additions: Jones. The point here is that outside of Tampa Bay, the 5/6 teams that had more points than we did last season have not improved either - and to take it a step further, I certainly feel that Boston, Pittsburgh, Montreal, and the NYR have all regressed. In terms of teams within striking distance who have also improved, NJ and WSH certainly stand alone. When you consider the possibility of a healthy team, the emergence and continued development of our younger players, the cap room and prospect pool we have to acquire pieces (which Holland MUST use at this point) and the lack of improved teams conference wide + number of teams in our division who have taken a step back (BOS, MTL, TOR, OTT,) I don't think the sky is falling as fast as it seems.

Wow, it's amazing to think just because we didn't sign an over priced UFA (the Niskanen deal is horrible), people think we have a bad team. We're good, and going to have a better season with guys healthy and our young players a year older. Boston, Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto, so far, are worse then last year, and Buffalo and Florida still suck!

How are Glendenning and Miller in rotating top 6 roles?? You realize forward depth is one of our strengths right? Just because we didn't land a top defenceman doesn't turn half our roster into an AHL squad.... I'm as disappointed as anyone but some of you guys need a serious reality check...

You realize that's a link to the word fun right?

You sir, are a grade A clown. Tank the season?? GTFO and go root for the Canucks or Flyers or someone.

I for one wanna watch my team actually play hockey, so yeah, no tank

Going a little far here. I'm as irritated as the next guy, and probably more than most. But rather than "tank it" how about we just give open spots to deserving kids and see what they can do? Seemed to work out well last year. I don't know about anybody else but I'd love to add a 6'4 200+ lb Mantha, and a 6'4 200+ lb Sproul to our lineup. As long as he doesn't trade anything valuable away and/or sign some washed up old guy (Alfie) we could very well see Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Mantha Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar Abby-Helm-Miller Kronwall-Ericsson Smith-Dekeyser Quincey-Sproul Probably won't compete for a Cup, maybe won't make the playoffs even. But maybe, just maybe, we get a little bigger, a little faster, a little bit more hungry, and a little harder to play against.

We already know what will happen. Samuelsson-Lang-Franzen Hudler-Legwand-Bertuzzi Calder-Williams-Alfredsson Leino-Emmerton-Cleary Quincey-Delmore Lebda-Woolley Lashoff-Kindl "I don't know why they're not coming here"

I hate Quincey and I hate Cleary even more. But to even consider "tanking" a season is beyond ridiculous. Especially a team like ours that makes the playoffs every year. I don't care how close it was, we continue to make the playoffs despite all the misfortunes thrown our way. And we actually played Boston pretty well for the most part in that series. Chara said it best when he said that it might have been a 5 game series but it sure didn't feel like one. Multiple OT games in that series. I wouldn't even consider tanking if we were a 12-15 seed. A legendary franchise like the Red Wings never say die and would never throw all integrity out the window and tank a season. So please, just go root for another team.

Why the hell wouldn't you want to make the playoffs? This isn't pre-lockout days where unless you had the hottest goalie in the history of the game did you even have a hope of causing an upset. LA were the number 6 seed in the west this year. 2 years before that they were the number 8 seed. The Devils were the 6 seed that year vs the kings. In 09-10 the Flyers were the number 7 seed in the East and they made the Finals. The point I'm making is, if you're roster is good enough to make the playoffs right now, why blow it up, because as we've seen, anything can happen. If you looked at the Rangers roster before the season began, and even after they traded for St Louis, would you still have picked them to beat Pittsburgh? This team is good enough to make the playoffs. And if anyone thinks that making the playoffs even if only to play 5 games is less valuable for the young kids experience than missing them completely, then you want your head testing. Last season, there were a few mistakes early that were costing us, and then the injury bug hit like Ive never seen. You cannot lose key players for extended periods like that an expect to keep competing, yet somehow we did. All of that experience is frankly, invaluable, such that when Pavel and hank come back healthy they'll be able to lead the way, and our kids last year will be able to provide depth and secondary scoring that every team needs to win. There will be ups and downs, but this team is trending up. The fact that we didn't sign a big name free agent on 1 day of the year doesn't mean otherwise.

Oh, and as for who's with you - when Fat Guy In A Maltby Jersey is the only poster who agrees with you, then you are badly, badly in the wrong.

Well, I've read some ridiculous hyberbole on here lately, but this one takes the biscuit. Last year, with no Datsyuk, no Zetterberg and an out of form Howard we still made the playoffs. What do you think we could achieve with our 2 star players and our goalie back to 2013 form? As for nothing to be excited about? Pavel Datsyuk excites me every time he steps onto the ice. Nyquist. Jurco. Tatar. Hanks beard excites me. MANTHA. Go ask Oilers fans how Operation Tank is working for them, and how much they are looking forward to another season of it.

^ This. We're not the Oilers, in fact we have something that's rare in this league and elsewhere anymore. Integrity. (and Datsyuk)

Nice to know we can't even have 1 single thread now without it becoming a Holland basher. On topic, this is hilarious. Is there something in the water in Philly?

LOL As someone who was expecting big things this off-season and is HIGHLY disappointed... it's a SHAME to think some of you are so blinded by your hatred for KH that you don't think this team can compete. NOBODY thought the Rangers would come out of the East- not with the Bruins, Penguins, Canadiens, or Red Wings in the playoffs. But they did. Because they made a good move at the deadline, were healthy, and believed in themselves. Do you all think that Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco, Smith, Tatar, and DeKeyser are ALL going to play WORSE than they did last year?? Let's say Nyquist regresses to a norm of 25-goals... with Zetterberg and Datsyuk back, that should be enough! If Weiss puts up even just 40 assists, this team is going to be better. The strides made between years one and two are usually very noticeable (ie. Brendan Smith, anyone?). And if you think all of the rookies are going to regress, why not have some faith that Kindl improves to his average after an awful season last year? This isn't a bad team. This team should finish anywhere from 4th-10th in the conference. You don't initiate a firesale before the season's began if you know you have a fighting shot.

We aren't Cup contenders right now. Signing Niskanen or Boyle wouldn't have changed that at all. They would've helped, but they wouldn't have put us over the top. So yes, I would love to still see us make the playoffs even if we do lose in the 1st round, but give me Pav on two legs...not just one, a healthy Z, and healthy Big E in that series and things might've been a little different. We might not have won but I don't think we would've lost 4-1. Not to mention our kids are getting valuable playoff experience. Sure as hell beats missing the playoffs all together. So what if we get a pick 3-4 picks lower than what we would've had? We aren't tanking. It's not going to happen. Pardon me if I have realistic expectations.

I disagree.

What is wrong with you people? You cannot and will not be in a position to compete for the Stanley Cup every year in a hard capped system. If you are lucky enough to make the playoffs every year in between then that's what you have to be excited about. Plus the emergence of a very young core of players, who (even if only one) can turn into a superstar this season. You also have Mantha, Pulkinen, and 2-3 AHL Defenseman who look very promising already. If Kenny HAD to sign Boyle or Niskanen because we had no OTHER alternatives he would have jacked the offers, but he probably knows a bit more than we do about who we have coming up and wants to atleast give them a try

I'll say this: Holland did as well as he could with his offers to other FA that chose to go elsewhere - besides maybe Gilbert which could have been a cheap improvement and still left room for the top-2 or -4 defenseman we were seeking. Despite his compounded failure to "nut-up" in previous off-seasons, I honestly believe he did all within his power to get the players we needed this off-season (given the current sad state of the team, which is his doing). If they don't want to come here, you can't force them and shouldn't grossly overpay them. However, there is absolutely ZERO excuse for the Quincey signing. That is disappointment turning into full-blown, unavoidable, mature, objective, and justified RAGE. Holland did what he always does when he misses out on his target: slaps some tape and shoe-polish on trash and tries to pass it off as a "bargain" or a "consolation prize". We aren't getting the sirloin because they ran out of prime rib; we've been fed a steady diet of cold spam. For that, Holland should be replaced.

If you think that squad would "Tank" then I think you need a lesson in talent analysis...

While you've probably opened another can of worms within which people can keep the fire Holland trend going, I have to say, I couldn't agree with you more. As one of the few people around here who seem to actually be optimistic about this coming season, it's refreshing to see other with a similar opinion.

This is a good post. But Holland’s done a respectable job of managing the cap. Sometimes I think people forget how the NHL works now. You absolutely have to built your team through the draft. I don’t have to tell anyone where Detroit has had the luxury of picking from since 91 do I? Holland’s at an automatic disadvantage. It’s a miracle that Datsyuk and Z were as good as they were or we would have been picking Doughty 2nd overall in 2008, not LA. Victim of his own success. I can only truly disapprove of Holland’s cap management for one reason. Hossa vs Franzen. Kenny could have kept Hossa and gotten a king’s ransom for Mule after those two back-to-back playoff runs. Who knows? That coveted #1 D man could be our right now via the Franzen trade that never happened. The Bowman’s would have traded his ass.

I want a Red Wings rebuild. That being said, "head in the sand" is thinking that the Wings will tank. Say it all you want, shout it on every message board, but the management and ownership want to keep the streak alive. Ignore this fact all you want; that won't make it less true.

So. After a night's sleep on this I have come to realise one thing. If I tried to ignore all the posts I didn't like in this thread, I'd be left with virtually nothing to read. Seriously though, everyone really does need to just chill. We've still got a very good, competitive team that will see improvement from our kids (both at forward and D), hopefully a return to form from our number 1 goalie, hopefully a healthy season from Weiss and a full season from Datsyuk and Z. That alone should get us a good solid seeding for the playoffs. I'll bet on that. Yes the Quincey move does look a little panicked, but I still believe that he had a solid second half (I saw it with my own eyes after all, and I'm sure several others did). The thing with a D man like Quincey is, that when he is playing well, you don't notice he's there, such that if anyone asked you if he had a solid second half, you wouldn't be able to remember because he never did anything spectacularly good or bad. There is, in my opinion, absolutely no reason to panic, because we haven't had a losing season since 1991. I don't need to sit here and regurgitate the facts. But the point is, I could understand if people were being defeatist and calling for KH's head if we had a horrendous season, but the fact, is, we didn't. By all accounts it was a good season, if not miraculous. And we saw the future develop right before us that I believe will be our core for years to come. They might not contain the next D or Z, but let's face it, when those guys were rookies, did anyone ever envisage them turning into the stars they are today? The point is, this team didn't get any worse at all this offseason. In fact, it got better as the kids will have another year's worth of season and playoff experience, we;ll be healthy again (touch wood), and we subtracted some old worn out parts (Bertuzzi, Samuelsson - and hopefully Cleary but that remains to be seen). Oh yea, and we've got Mantha turning pro, and several kids in GR ready to step in and actually challenge for jobs in training camp. So why all the doom and gloom? There is actually a lot to like about this teams future.

I'm not mad at KH not signing one year wonders like Niskanen or aging guys like Boyle. We don't need them in fact and could have regretted these deal. I'm not mad at KH for signing Quickey. He is top 4. I'm mad at filling the roster with Kindls and Lashoffs and not being able to trade them for something meaningful. Play our youngsters on the D, Sproul, Oulette, Backman, Marchenko.