384 replies to this topic

[rrasco]

Subtract Emmerton and Eaves (injured). Holland has this team in excellent shape if we have a 60 mil Cap right away. It makes no sense to buy any player out on the Wings this time around. Should be quite a bit of trade action if it is a 60 mil Cap immediately even with the 1 player per team buyout. Philly comes to mind.

Yeah, I just went to capgeek and determined the changes you made. Updated my post, but you beat me to it. Sucks Eaves is having such a hard time recovering. The guy played his heart out for us.

This just in:

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL source told me a deal needs to be done by January 11. If not, the 2012-2013 season will be cancel.

[dirtydangles]

I like this offer. The league budged a little. Now its time for the players to do the same here. If there is a counter offer it better have only a few small concession requests. Ask maybe for 8 year re-sign contract limit rather than 7 and 11% variance. Just try to squeeze a little more out of the same proposal. If the players try to counter with something different the season will be lost. The way negotiations have gone, each time there are counter offers the nhl has disappeared for a couple weeks.

[Hatethedrake!]

It seems each time the NHL makes an offer and makes some concessions the NHLPA responds with basically the same offers they have been making to the NHL all along only dressed up differently. I am surprised the NHL has actually kept making all these offers. I hate to say it but if I were an NHL owner, I would have told Bettman to axe the season months ago. I just shake my head at this dog and pony show from both sides. Even if there is a season this year, I am not going to any Wings games. I usually attend 4 or 5 games at the Joe and go to Toronto if the Wings are playing there. But not this time. I can't stomach giving any money to either side right now. I know neither the owners or players could care less though.

[dirtydangles]

I'd buyout sammy's or bert's contract. Tatar has made his case to be in the big leagues and the most successful teams balance rookie and senior contracts to make the cap. Good on Holland for not spending to the cap this offseason. When cleary leaves at the end of the season, that, plus the removal of coliacovo or white will leave us room to sign a top dman in the offseason.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,548,712; BONUSES: $672,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $13,323,788

[BottleOfSmoke]

For negotiations to move into the right direction 2 things need to happen:

1) The NHLPA counterproposal MUST not insult the owners... they must work directly off of the NHL's proposal.

2) The NHL and Gary Bettman CANNOT throw a hissyfit and break off communication again because there is no time for that.

If either of these 2 things happen then the season is over.

This. The PA has to counter off of this offer instead of bringing an entirely new proposal to the table, and the league has to be open to hearing some negotiation from the PA off of this offer without throwing a tantrum. If these two things can happen they might be able to get some traction. But since this approach seems obvious and driven by common sense, I have no confidence that that is how it will be handled. I'm so tired of talking about this and pissed at myself that I still care. I just want it done. Blow the season or sign a deal. PLEASE.

[redwingmachine]

I'd buyout sammy's or bert's contract. Tatar has made his case to be in the big leagues and the most successful teams balance rookie and senior contracts to make the cap. Good on Holland for not spending to the cap this offseason. When cleary leaves at the end of the season, that, plus the removal of coliacovo or white will leave us room to sign a top dman in the offseason.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m)
Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,548,712; BONUSES: $672,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $13,323,788

Yeah, it looks like Holland is a lot smarter than some give him credit for.

If the cap is lowered to 60mil for the start of the 2013 season.... what a mess.

Boston Bruins » $68,867,976
Minnesota Wild » $68,848,867
Vancouver Canucks » $67,768,333
Calgary Flames » $66,668,332
Philadelphia Flyers » $66,643,373
San Jose Sharks » $65,241,667
Chicago Blackhawks » $64,445,128
Buffalo Sabres » $64,354,523
Montreal Canadiens » $63,897,976
Washington Capitals » $63,594,572
Toronto Maple Leafs » $63,485,833
Tampa Bay Lightning » $63,246,916
Edmonton Oilers » $62,933,333
Los Angeles Kings » $62,320,227
Detroit Red Wings » $61,442,045
Pittsburgh Penguins » $60,989,333

Edited by redwingmachine, 28 December 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[Hatethedrake!]

The pattern seems to be something like this...

NHL makes offer. NHLPA accepts NHL's concessions and dresses up counter proposal basically giving up nothing. Players keeps saying 'we agreed to 50-50' when really they didn't. If you look closely enough at what exactly the NHLPA has been offering, it is still around 55-57%. So the NHL then gets mad and Bettman throws a hissy fit and Daly says dumb things like 'this is the hill we will die on.' Neither side talks for a week or 2 and then the NHL comes back with another offer. The NHLPA responds the same way they have all along. During this process we see things such as...Crosby standing behind Fehr with his baseball cap pulled down to his crotch saying things like 'we have made fair offers and the owners have done nothing and we can't negotiate with an unwilling partner.' Daly (Elmer Fudd) basically does most of the talking to the media because Bettman is too angry to speak apparently.Billionaires fighting with millionaires. It's impossible for me to feel sorry for any of these guys. I mean seriously, how to these guys NOT get a deal done? Bettman is making 8 mil and I am surre Fehr is not starving. These guys are PAID to negotiate a deal and yet all they do is whine back and forth. What gets me the most is the time wasted in all of this. When the NFL and NFL union were negotiating back and forth, at least they were talking around the clock EVERY DAY. These twits can't even talk most of the time. And when they do, they get mediators involved and go through the motions. "I want this, this and that. Well I want that, that and this." Oh now I am so mad I can't talk anymore. I may get back to the table if I feel like it in a week or so." Both sides are deadline hunting. Things will not get serious until the last minute in mid January. Then when Fehr offers the same thing only dressed up differently and Bettman throws his 67th hissy fit, there will be NO time to negotiate an actual deal. Too much time wasted. No momentum made. No real negotiating done. It's like when you're in school and you wait until the last minute to study for a test but instead you go to Game 7 Wings vs Leafs at the Joe in 1993 and watch in horror as NIk the Stik scores the game winning goal. Oh wait never mind...What was I saying? Both sides are morons. The NHL IS and has always been its own worst enemy. I think Babs may be right. The NHL when it does come back, may be as popular as bowling in the US. The NHL is not a 3 billion dollar industry anymore that's for sure. And whose fault is it? Bunch of clowns.

[Playmaker]

He did the same thing before the last lockout, which is why the Wings were able to remain comepetitive for as long as they have. He's never just thinking about the here and now, but always has an eye to the future.

[vangvace]

another little tidbit in the the nhl's offer was that all non playoff teams would be eligible for the lottery draft with the goal of reducing tanking late in the season

That combined with the small shift if free agency's start date smacks of common sense. I'm not sure if I like it.

[Hatethedrake!]

He did the same thing before the last lockout, which is why the Wings were able to remain comepetitive for as long as they have. He's never just thinking about the here and now, but always has an eye to the future.

Yeah, back in 2006 Kenny had to make a $68 mil team a $39 mil team. He bought out Hatcher, Whitney and McCarty. This time he prepared for it. Funny how things would be if he was able to sign Suter though. Well like Mick says 'if all the ifs and buts were candy and nuts then we'd all have a Merry Christmas."

[redwingmachine]

He did the same thing before the last lockout, which is why the Wings were able to remain comepetitive for as long as they have. He's never just thinking about the here and now, but always has an eye to the future.

The truth about Ken Holland is he is a genius, and those that disagree simply haven’t the capacity.

[irishock]

If the amnesty/buyout clause does kick in, who do the Wings use it on? Franzen? Samuelsson? Bertuzzi?

[Rick D]

If the amnesty/buyout clause does kick in, who do the Wings use it on? Franzen? Samuelsson? Bertuzzi?

I was going to start a new topic about this. I'm pretty interested to see what they do about this too.

I wonder if they would just sit where they are for now to see who comes available, then cut out the appropriate contract to make room for a new player.

[Hatethedrake!]

If the amnesty/buyout clause does kick in, who do the Wings use it on? Franzen? Samuelsson? Bertuzzi?

Hudler. Oh wait uh...I can't see Kenny using the buyout this time around. You never know though I suppose.

[redwingmachine]

If the amnesty/buyout clause does kick in, who do the Wings use it on? Franzen? Samuelsson? Bertuzzi?

That's really hard to say but I would assume all 3 that you mention would be the likely candidates. If it were me, I suppose I would go with Sammy so not to mess with current team chemistry and I don't see what he has that we don't already have. Then again he is right handed and has some clutch goals for us and it seems like a real **** move to bring him here just to buy him out.

[rrasco]

I'm not sure they have to buy out anybody. Maybe a trade or something. As noted above, Emmy and Eaves make the most sense to move or buy out because of Eaves' injury and I don't think Emmy will ever crack this roster.

[hooon]

another little tidbit in the the nhl's offer was that all non playoff teams would be eligible for the lottery draft with the goal of reducing tanking late in the season

If its a weighted lottery, wouldn't this actually entice MORE teams to try to tank in order to get a higher potential draft pick?

[redwingmachine]

This is interesting:
"- Money paid (above a defined threshold) to Players on NHL SPCs in another professional league (e.g., the AHL or a European league) will be charged against the NHL team's Cap, but not against the Players' Share."

"- Flexibility-related adjustments to Payroll Range System, including (in addition to Salary/Cap Charge allocation in Player trades):
2. Elimination of Re-Entry Waivers;"

Does this mean for example that we could simply rotate guys like Emmy and Tatar the the AHL and not risk them to Re-Entry Waivers all the while only have a cap hit of what is above the undisclosed Defined Threshold while they are in the AHL? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this.

[dirtydangles]

Funny how things would be if he was able to sign Suter though."

I think we would have been okay. We would not have Coliacovo and would not have signed Sammy. Then if you take eaves out of the equation you get pretty close to where we need to be. Also Tootoo's contract is a little too much and could have been the one that would be removed with the new buyout. Keep emmerton and bring tatar up to fill up the roster.

Edited by dirtydangles, 28 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[rrasco]

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL told the NHLPA that the drop dead date was January 11th, according to another NHL source.

This is interesting:
"- Money paid (above a defined threshold) to Players on NHL SPCs in another professional league (e.g., the AHL or a European league) will be charged against the NHL team's Cap, but not against the Players' Share."

"- Flexibility-related adjustments to Payroll Range System, including (in addition to Salary/Cap Charge allocation in Player trades):
2. Elimination of Re-Entry Waivers;"

Does this mean for example that we could simply rotate guys like Emmy and Tatar the the AHL and not risk them to Re-Entry Waivers all the while only have a cap hit of what is above the undisclosed Defined Threshold while they are in the AHL? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this.

I think that will depend on their status. They have to go through waivers to get to GR too. So unless they are waiver exempt, I don't think it would matter.