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So what do we have to trade?


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#1 Richdg

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:58 AM

We all can and do have long lists of players that we would love to have playing for the RW's. Holland and Babcock have both talked about adding "top 6 forward" and a "RHed top 4 Dman". That of course is the easy part. The much harder part is figuring out who we can trade away, without completely gutting the team and our future.

 

So who can be used in trades?

 

The following can't be do to NTC/NMC: Datsyuk, Weiss, Kronwall, Ericsson, and Howard.

can't be moved do to sentimental reasons: Zetterberg.

UFA's and no value: bertuzzi, Sammy, Cleary, Legwand, Quincy, Alfie, and gus.

 

Now we can begin.

 

Forwards with some value: Helm, Abby, Miller, Nyquist, tatar, Sheahan, Franzen, Jurco, Glendening, Andersson, Pulkkinan, TooToo, Callahan, and ferraro.

 

Dmen with some value: Dekeyser, Smith, lashoff, Kindl, Ouellet, Sproul, marchenko, and backman.

 

G with value: Mrasek

 

minor/junior players: long list.

 

Now the debate begins. You need 14 forwards, 7 Dmen, and 2 G's on the NHL team. You need a few NHL ready prospects in the AHL in the event of injuries. 2-3 F 2 Dmen and a G in GR that can be called up should be enough-we hope.

 

So the extras;

 

helm and Glendening. Physically they are twins. both about 5-11/195. On the ice they are very similar. Helm a little faster, Glendening a little grittier. Both play the same position: checking line C. Glendening is 2 years younger and about 1.5 million cheaper. I would keep Glendening and use Helm in a trade to fill our 2 major holes.

 

Tatar and Pulkkinen. Again very similar players. both in the 5-10/190 range. Both are snipers. Same age. the only real difference is, Pulkkinen is Rhed and tatar is a lefty. Neither is big, both need to improve defensively, and both a good shooters. between the 2, tatar has more trade value because he has done it at the NHL level, Pulk still in the minors. keep Pulk and use tatar in a trade.

 

kindl. he struggled this year but has played better in the past. We have a ton of good young Dmen right on the verge of being ready. use him in trade, but this is a selling low year with Kindl.

 

Smith. Does he stay or go? I am fine with either. But you have to provide some value to get some value. In the right deal there isn't anything lost. if we are going after say Carlson to be the RHed Dman, then moving Smith is fine. after all Carlson is Rhed, proven, and a year younger than Smith. With Ouellet and backman a year or so away, this isn't a big risk in the right move.....

 

Mrasek. yes he looks like a guy that could be very good at the NHL level in a couple of years. But that also makes him a very valuable trade piece. We have a very good NHL G in Howard-who is signed long term. We have another good looking prospect behind Mrasek in Paterson. This means if we have to, in the right deal, we can in fact move him. In the grand scheme of things, what is more important to the team right now? A great G prospect or a great Dmen or Power forward?

 

Those 5 are our primary pieces that we can move in a trade without causing more holes to appear. yes the 2014 1st round pick can be added to the list, making 6 major trade pieces. we still then have filler like Callahan, Ferraro, Almqvist. That should be enough to make 2 nice deals.

 



#2 VM1138

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:50 PM

Though discussions at different Internet locations were purely hypothetical and far-fetched, the more I hear about "trade Howard" the more sense it makes.  Howard isn't necessarily at fault for our struggles, but he doesn't have to be to be trade bait.  Miller is becoming a free agent this summer.  If we can be sure to sign Miller, Howard could be a pretty good bargaining chip.  He's a decent goalie with spurts of greatness.  Surely there's a team that constantly struggles with goalies who would be interested in a steady workhorse in exchange for a mid-20s defenseman on the rise?  At the very least as part of a package.

 

If Holland goes the trade route, I think Howard is the best we can offer any team to get legitimate value back.  Assuming of course that Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Datsyuk are off-limits, as we know they are.


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#3 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:04 PM

^^^^

 

I have been saying for a while now, we have to "convince" Howard to waive his NTC and throw the wallet at Miller. There are ways around a NTC. Just let Jimmy know that the team plans to move in a different direction and that they'd like a list of teams he would go play for. If he doesn't submit a list, bench him. Sure he is still getting paid, but he won't start a single game. This kind if stuff happens behind closed doors all the time. If he wants to play, he will submit a list. They don't have to be obvious about it, or even rude. They already told him they were going in a different direction and would like to find him a team to where he will be playing. You sign Miller and Jimmy sits. If you don't want to spend the money, you put your eggs in Vokoun or Nabby and Jimmy sits. It looks like he lost his job.

 

Best case scenario, jimmy waives his NTC and we get miller. This would have to be pre planned though...if you trade jimmy and don't get miller...whoops.


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#4 Richdg

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:20 PM

Howard isn't going anywhere and this is key, he is a better g than Miller is at this point in their careers. Miller playing on a better team sucked in the PO's. Howard had much better numbers vs the NHL's best team. Howard is not the issue. Our sucky D and yes his injuries were the issues this year.



#5 GoWings1905

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:27 PM

Vokoun or Nabokov starting over Howard? One didn't play a single game in the NHL and the other is 38 with worse numbers than Jimmy last season. Putting your eggs in that basket is about as far-fetched as the notion that Monster is an upgrade over Howard. Miller couldn't even get a stacked team out of the first round with one of the best defenses in hockey. I like Ryan Miller too, but he's at best marginally superior to Howard and will cost more to sign in free agency. Miller isn't going to fare any better here unless Holland upgrades the defense too, which now is less likely because of how much Miller will command. 

 

Give Mrazek the backup job and let him push Howard next year. As far as trade chips, depending on the urgency to "win now", you have to look at some of the prospects on defense. If you can package one (I would prefer it not be Sproul) in a deal to get some proven help on defense, then the Red Wings should consider it. Otherwise you are left with more of Kindl/Lashoff or signing stopgaps until all of them are ready. Not to mention, there's already Smith, DeKeyser and Ericsson on the roster going forward. 


 
 
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#6 STL-Wings

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:31 PM

No to Miller.  Not getting younger.  Sure he is a local and his brother but as far as this organization at this moment...no.  Ten years ago was another story.

 

Now if you said Johnathan Quick wants to play here then we can talk. 

 

Miller and Howard are, I think, the same level and the fact that Howard is a bit younger tilts me to keeping him.  He had a bad season.  If it continues, yes, make a change.  But this year was crazy in almost every regard all over the roster.  Give him a season to fix it.



#7 nawein

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:17 PM

Franzen and Smith are the two I would move this summer. Together they could get us a good dman. If you need to throw in a pick do it, but both if those guys are replaceable in our roster. Especially since we'll be getting a top 4 back. Trade Kindl for a pick at the draft and let the kids fight over his spot. That's all the trading I'd like to see this summer though. Howard isn't going anywhere and in a few years we'll have a 1, 1a situation in net.

#8 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:17 PM

 

helm and Glendening. Physically they are twins. both about 5-11/195. On the ice they are very similar. Helm a little faster, Glendening a little grittier. Both play the same position: checking line C. Glendening is 2 years younger and about 1.5 million cheaper. I would keep Glendening and use Helm in a trade to fill our 2 major holes.

I really don't think Helm and Glendening are similar at all. Helm got 12 goals in 42 games this season and has really started to show some offensive ability. Secondary scoring is essential to team success - especially on a team that is starving for offence. Also, of course, he's been a great PKer. Helm can move up and down the line up 2nd line to 4th line. He's also been around for a while and in the age group of players that hopefully are becoming leaders for us. He shows incredibly hard work and that should be an example for the rest of the team. Yes he's been injured, but I think he's unmovable unless it's a huge return.

 

I like Glendening, but he's only shown defensive abilities. Great at shutting down stars and PK, but I really don't know how you can see these 2 as similar players. 

 

If Weiss works out as 2nd line center, then we do he have 1 too many centers and one of Sheahan, Helm, and Glendening would have to be moved to the wing or else they could become expendable. It would be a hard decision since I like them all.

 

Oh, and Andersson, Miller, Tootoo(who will be bought out), Kindl, Lashoff(though good 7th D) are expendable, but I really don't know how much he'd get in return

 

I Like Smith, Dekeyser, E, Kronwall on Defence. If 2 young guys grab roster spots then we have some tradeable D prospects 


Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk, 07 May 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#9 DickieDunn

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:19 PM

Ask the Canucks how easy it is to trade a goalie with a long contract.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#10 BadgerBob

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:30 PM

I'd be willing to part ways with anyone on the team except the following: Pav, Hank, Tatar, Nyquist, Kronwall, Dekeyser, and Jurco. Unless we are getting someone like Giroux or Stamkos I'd be pretty pissed if any of them left.



#11 kipwinger

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:36 PM

Ask the Canucks how easy it is to trade a goalie with a long contract

 

 

Right, because Roberto Luongo signing a 12 year contract as the age of 32 is totally comparable to Jimmy Howard signing a 6 year contract at age 29.  Totally. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#12 Playmaker

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:43 PM

I guess the NTC thing for Howard was overlooked. 

 

It's always interesting to see fans interpretations of what their players are worth and what they think they can get for them.

 

I don't think Howard had a great year, but I think he's the least of the Wings' problems.

 

Holland just doesn't have a strong history of making blockbuster trades.  As far as young players go, Jurco is the only one I see who might be included in a deal.  Not sure what Kindl would bring back in a trade, and his contract is limiting when compared to his contributions.  Smith is really the only one who contributes any offense from the D.  He made great strides this year and I'd like to see him back. 

 

It's great the Wings have a lot of cap room, but there just aren't that many quality free agents out there, and it always means committing to much money for too long of a term.  Seems likely that any player of quality the Wings could acquire would be because of a big contract. 



#13 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:47 PM

Ship off Howard, bring in Miller, give it 40 games next season before the "Miller = Average" thread goes up. He's aging, he isn't what he used to be. He wasn't that good in the playoffs this year, his numbers leave something to be desired. He'd come here, play about on par, maybe slightly better than Howard, but people will realize how much more of an impact the defense makes (if it is not much improved) over the quality of the goaltender. I think a lot of people cling onto how he was 5 years ago, the kind of goalie he was in the Olympics, the NHL superstar goalie, that isn't the Miller we'd be overpaying for and i'd rather see the money go into a better defenseman over a very mild upgrade over Howard for a much bigger contract.

 

It's honestly just my opinion, i've been wrong before, we all have at one point, but I think the focus is solely defense first and maybe one quality winger.


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#14 DickieDunn

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:17 PM

What teams need a goalie?  What do they have the Wings want that they'd be willing to give up?  Why would they trade for Howard instead of using a pick on one or signing Miller, Halak, or Hiller?  If the Wings sign Miller first then try to trade Howard, they other team will know that the Wings have no choice but move him and it would kill any trade value he has.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#15 LeftWinger

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:40 PM

I agree with the Howard stuff too.  He will be better with better defense in front of him.  We also need consistent scoring as well.  The best trade scenario I seen on these threads was the one that involved Helm and Kesler.  I like that deal and I think Vancouver, and their needs would do it as well.  I still would like to see the asking price for Kesler and Edler. If you can acquire those two, our score and our D become instantly better.  You have to ditch Kindl though, he is no longer an NHL defenseman.  Get a low pick for him, more than likely future considerations...

 

IMO our tradable guys are: Franzen, Helm, Smith, Almqvist, Ferraro, Callahan, Andersson, Kindl, Abdelkader, Miller and Ericsson.  Howard if you can secure a better goalie, or if Mrazek was in a better position to take over. Weiss if he submits some teams in in modified NTC.

 

Am I saying trade them all? No, but we need upgrades up front and on D.  Folks and or picks have to go in order to get better.


Edited by LeftWinger, 07 May 2014 - 04:45 PM.

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#16 F.Michael

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:51 PM

We really have nothing.



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#17 Dabura

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:30 PM

The only true untouchables are Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall. The holy trinity.

 

A rung or two below them: Ericsson (loyal, homegrown, new father, the Liv connection) and DeKeyser (could've signed anywhere, chose the Wings).

 

Beyond those five, no one gets tenure.


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#18 Dabura

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:46 PM

What teams need a goalie?  What do they have the Wings want that they'd be willing to give up?  Why would they trade for Howard instead of using a pick on one or signing Miller, Halak, or Hiller?

 

In a word, Winnipeg.


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#19 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 05:53 PM

I don't see any chance of Howard getting traded even if he were to waive his NTC. Goalies are available in abundance these days, with lots of proof that cheap goalies can provide a lot of value, and he does not have a major playoff pedigree. I cannot think of one team that would view him as a sizeable upgrade over either what they already have or what they can obtain cheaply elsewhere.

 

I think this will be a much bigger issue somewhere between eight and 18 months from now, by which time I expect it will be apparent that Mrazek should be our No. 1. Not to veer too far off-topic, but to me one of the most interesting questions the org faces right now is how to handle the eventual transition from Howard to Mrazek, and when that transition should take place. I think this fall is too soon for that, but it might happen by late next season, especially if they decide to keep PM as the No. 2 rather than send him back down for another year. (Mind you, I don't think they will do that until 2015, so the real crunch may come later that season,)



#20 DickieDunn

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:09 PM

We really have nothing.


There are a ton of tradable assets, just not many most fans want to see go. Hence the Miller+Almquist+Ferraro for a good player suggestions.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!






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