Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Red Wings Target Mike Green


  • Please log in to reply
257 replies to this topic

#61 Zetts

Zetts

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 968 posts
  • Location:Edmonton

Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:40 PM

How about Helm and Kindl straight up?  Sign Morris, have two RH d-men, waive Lashoff, #kfq is your 7th guy...

 

 

Kronwall - Green

Smith - Dekeyser

Ericsson - Morris

#kfq

I know he's had injury issues, but you don't trade a player like Helm unless you're getting a really, really good return. 



#62 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,986 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:54 PM

To answer both of you...

 

1.  The Legwand trade should have shown everyone the danger of trading good talent for expiring contracts.  And free agency just showed us that lots of NHL players would rather not sign here.  So it would be stupid to trade a more valuable asset (Tatar) for a more questionable player (Green).  There's a real good chance you lose a real good roster player for nothing. 

 

2.  Until Teemu Pulkkinen scores a single NHL point, there's absolutely no reason to assume that he's got more value to the team, or a higher ceiling, than the guy who just scored 19 goals and 39 pts. in his rookie year.  There's also no reason to assume that Pulkkinen can replace his production.  Assuming so would be dangerous, regardless of what your gut feelings are, or your eyeball tests, or anything else.

 

If you're going to trade Tatar, get good value for him, or keep him.  He was one of the few bright spots that our team had a year ago and he's only going to improve off his rookie year.  Trade him as part of a package for a top four defenseman under contract, or a top six forward under contract, or don't trade him. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#63 VM1138

VM1138

    Legend

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,561 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:56 PM

The Wings didn't want to re-sign Legwand. It's not like he rejected them. We don't usually have a problem keeping UFA's once we have them. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
Check out my short e-book on the Red Wings' 1937 Stanley Cup championship entitled: "Nothing Could Keep 'Em Down." Please download it from my profile at Smashwords: https://www.smashwor...ile/view/victor

New e-book: The Spanish-American War: A Brief History. Relatively short, introductory read for casual history buffs and people who want to learn more about a forgotten war that changed America. Available at BN.com, Smashwords, Kobo, and Diesel E-Books right now. Same link as above.

#64 WingsallTheway

WingsallTheway

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 435 posts
  • Location:Sudbury

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:01 PM

 

 

edit: misinterpretation


Edited by WingsallTheway, 08 July 2014 - 06:05 PM.

wingsalltheway.jpg



Pavel datsyuk is the best player in the world because he snatches the puck from unsuspecting players and  follows it up by the simultaneous undressing of the defence pairing. The goalie then gives up, and flops like a fish. The end result is a calm skate back to his bench  where he can bask in the praise of his multiple girlfriends from the motherland.

 


#65 krsmith17

krsmith17

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Paradise, Newfoundland

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:23 PM

I obviously don't know for sure who is going to be better between the two small, skilled wingers but I without a doubt believe Pulkkinen will be the better player and the bigger need in a few years. Like, I've made clear many times, I really like Tatar and I would love to keep him, but if we are making a trade, to me, he is the most expendable forward. Yes, he just had a great rookie year, which should increase his value even more in a trade.

 

Pulkkinen has a better shot than any prospect we've had in a long time, probably ever, and we probably haven't had a weapon of a shot on our team since Brett Hull. I hate comparing prospects to retired greats, but you cannot deny the similarities in the two. They're both identical in size, 5'10, 195-200lbs. they both shoot right and have a cannon, hell, Pulk even goes down on one knee, when one-timing from the hash marks, the same way Hull did.

 

So isn't it obvious now that Pulkkinen will put up nearly 1400 points in the NHL the same way Hull did... :P

Seriously though, I really like this kids potential. :)



#66 dat's sick

dat's sick

    Fear can hold you prisoner, hope can set you free

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,347 posts
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:25 PM

To answer both of you...
 
1.  The Legwand trade should have shown everyone the danger of trading good talent for expiring contracts.  And free agency just showed us that lots of NHL players would rather not sign here.  So it would be stupid to trade a more valuable asset (Tatar) for a more questionable player (Green).  There's a real good chance you lose a real good roster player for nothing. 
 
2.  Until Teemu Pulkkinen scores a single NHL point, there's absolutely no reason to assume that he's got more value to the team, or a higher ceiling, than the guy who just scored 19 goals and 39 pts. in his rookie year.  There's also no reason to assume that Pulkkinen can replace his production.  Assuming so would be dangerous, regardless of what your gut feelings are, or your eyeball tests, or anything else.
 
If you're going to trade Tatar, get good value for him, or keep him.  He was one of the few bright spots that our team had a year ago and he's only going to improve off his rookie year.  Trade him as part of a package for a top four defenseman under contract, or a top six forward under contract, or don't trade him. 

Agree completely, well said.

Except, I would easily trade a Jarnkrok-level prospect for Green. Say.. Frk? Athanasiou? Nestrasil?

#67 kipwinger

kipwinger

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,986 posts
  • Location:Mt. Pleasant, MI

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:26 PM

I obviously don't know for sure who is going to be better between the two small, skilled wingers but I without a doubt believe Pulkkinen will be the better player and the bigger need in a few years. Like, I've made clear many times, I really like Tatar and I would love to keep him, but if we are making a trade, to me, he is the most expendable forward. Yes, he just had a great rookie year, which should increase his value even more in a trade.

 

Pulkkinen has a better shot than any prospect we've had in a long time, probably ever, and we probably haven't had a weapon of a shot on our team since Brett Hull. I hate comparing prospects to retired greats, but you cannot deny the similarities in the two. They're both identical in size, 5'10, 195-200lbs. they both shoot right and have a cannon, hell, Pulk even goes down on one knee, when one-timing from the hash marks, the same way Hull did.

 

So isn't it obvious now that Pulkkinen will put up nearly 1400 points in the NHL the same way Hull did... :P

Seriously though, I really like this kids potential. :)

 

I like his potential too.  I like Tatar's goals even better.  Until Pulkkinen scores some NHL goals I'm not assuming anything on potential. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#68 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,815 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:27 PM

Agree completely, well said.

Except, I would easily trade a Jarnkrok-level prospect for Green. Say.. Frk? Athanasiou? Nestrasil?

 

Athanasiou has developed into one of our top prospects.  At least I think so....


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#69 mvanpop

mvanpop

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:27 PM

I'd say if mike green comes to Detroit he will never put up over 55 pts. Detroit is a two way team and won't want it's defensemen taking to much risk to get points. Look at Smith they moved him to forward to use his offensive skills and kronwall has had to be conservative since Stuart left

#70 krsmith17

krsmith17

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Paradise, Newfoundland

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

That's fair, I guess. So I guess you would trade Mantha or Sproul because so far they're projections are based solely on potential? :P Kidding. I get what you're saying. Hopefully we can keep Tats and Pulk.



#71 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,815 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:31 PM

I'd say if mike green comes to Detroit he will never put up over 55 pts. Detroit is a two way team and won't want it's defensemen taking to much risk to get points. Look at Smith they moved him to forward to use his offensive skills and kronwall has had to be conservative since Stuart left

 

Kronwall hit 49 this past season.  I dont think 55 for Mike Green is out of the question considering his skillset.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#72 krsmith17

krsmith17

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Paradise, Newfoundland

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:34 PM

I agree Son of a Wing. I'm a huge fan of Athanasiou as well... Hell, there are very few prospects I would want to trade lol.

 

I know only one in like every three prospects turn out but I would be afraid we would trade the ones that turn out and keep the busts. Although that is one thing I think Holland has been great at. He very rarely gives up on prospects that turn out to be great and usually flips some of the prospects that he doesn't feel will work out for something in return.


Edited by krsmith17, 09 July 2014 - 05:43 AM.


#73 Motown4013

Motown4013

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,069 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:44 PM

Why O Why does everyone think that the starting point for every single trade on earth is a high end prospect or roster player with upside?  None of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, or Mantha would go the other way in a trade for Green.  Good god, just look at every other deadline deal for guys who aren't superstars.  You ever see those kinds of roster players or prospects going the other way for a teams fourth defenseman?
 
Anaheim got ONE top prospect, a mid tier prospect, and a 1st for Bobby Ryan...and he was under (a very affordable) contract.  Mike Green will DEFINITELY not cost us more than that. 
 
Where do these relative values come from?

I completely agree Kip....I think the value of Green is drastically overstated. The guy is still young and if he is healthy, he can have a long career but honestly, people are acting like we are trying to acquire Drew Doughty here. It's obvious that the caps are going in a different direction with the signing of Niskinen and Orpik. Green is the odd guy out AND Washington is right up against the cap. As Ansar points out in his article, they need depth at forward and they need to clear some cap space to go that.....so in my mind, it's a salary dump for Washington so they can address their needs at forward. That works in Detroits favor. I think a 1st rounder and a moderate prospect will do it. Once they rid themselves of the 6 million they are paying for Green they can address their need with a forward.
If this is the case, I'm interested.....if they are talking Jurco, Gus or Tats....I'm not!
PS Franzen could go....and then the Caps can have the laziest line in hockey with Mule and OV!
Raising another Red Wings Fan!

The future looks bright in Hockeytown!
GUSTAV SNIPEQUIST!

#74 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,465 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:50 PM

 
Kronwall hit 49 this past season.  I dont think 55 for Mike Green is out of the question considering his skillset.


Ya, and babs wants an offensive rh defenseman, he's been quoted saying so several times. We played more defensively because we have no choice. Our dmen can't move the puck out. Like I said we had rafalski lidstrom Stuart and kronwall before. If we got a guy like green dekeyser could stay back and make up for his mistakes and green could make our transition game so much better and put up a lot of points in the process. We would have 2 great pp qb's and two very good offensive dmen, and I guarantee we instantly become a much much better team

#75 mvanpop

mvanpop

    Jr. Prospect

  • Member
  • 25 posts

Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:54 PM

I completely agree Kip....I think the value of Green is drastically overstated. The guy is still young and if he is healthy, he can have a long career but honestly, people are acting like we are trying to acquire Drew Doughty here. It's obvious that the caps are going in a different direction with the signing of Niskinen and Orpik. Green is the odd guy out AND Washington is right up against the cap. As Ansar points out in his article, they need depth at forward and they need to clear some cap space to go that.....so in my mind, it's a salary dump for Washington so they can address their needs at forward. That works in Detroits favor. I think a 1st rounder and a moderate prospect will do it. Once they rid themselves of the 6 million they are paying for Green they can address their need with a forward.
If this is the case, I'm interested.....if they are talking Jurco, Gus or Tats....I'm not!
PS Franzen could go....and then the Caps can have the laziest line in hockey with Mule and OV!

I like keeping Tatar Nyquist and Mantha but I would really like red wings to hold on to their first rounders. Just so they can get some talent with a shorter development time so we can have a stacked roster in the next few years

Edited by mvanpop, 08 July 2014 - 06:55 PM.


#76 Son of a Wing

Son of a Wing

    London Lions Captain

  • Gold Booster
  • 1,815 posts
  • Location:London, Ontario

Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:00 PM

Ya, and babs wants an offensive rh defenseman, he's been quoted saying so several times. We played more defensively because we have no choice. Our dmen can't move the puck out. Like I said we had rafalski lidstrom Stuart and kronwall before. If we got a guy like green dekeyser could stay back and make up for his mistakes and green could make our transition game so much better and put up a lot of points in the process. We would have 2 great pp qb's and two very good offensive dmen, and I guarantee we instantly become a much much better team

 

Soooo you're agreeing with me? I can't tell.  I was arguing that Green would put up 55 points. aka be successful in our system.


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
When asked who won, Babcock said, “Well it doesn’t really matter as long as you don’t lose. It’s like going bear hunting, you take a slow guy with you in case the bear is hungry.”

#77 krsmith17

krsmith17

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Paradise, Newfoundland

Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:02 PM

I agree, the first rounder would be a non starter for me as well...



#78 atodaso

atodaso

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 671 posts

Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:04 PM

Get it done Kenny. Green is the type of player the Wings have been missing on defence since Rafalski retired.



#79 brett

brett

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,018 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:15 PM

if we have to give up a guy like tatar or nyquist let it be for a guy like yandle or bogo



#80 Euro_Twins

Euro_Twins

    Healthy Scratch

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,465 posts
  • Location:Windsor, Ontario

Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:54 PM

 

Soooo you're agreeing with me? I can't tell.  I was arguing that Green would put up 55 points. aka be successful in our system.

 

yes, I was agreeing with you, and just adding to what you were saying. Apparantly if a dman doesn't put up 60+ points he isn't very good according to some people...

 

and to those that want to reiterate, yes he isn't great defensively, but why should he have to be, like i said if he isn't spending much time in his own end, there's no need to worry about being amazing in his own end, that's what dekeyser/ericssonis for







Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users