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Euro_Twins

Candiens, P.K. Subban agree to 8 year contract

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The real issue is the revenue sharing between the teams. Even with a cap and a floor there are haves and have nots because some teams get a lot more revenue from tickets merchandise and local TV deals. The other issue is when a team throws a bunch of money at a mediocre player just because they have it to spend.

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If we had a player like Subban and he was given this contract, I doubt many people here would be upset.

I can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't be that happy with anything over 7, and I wouldn't be able to tolerate anything over 8.
krsmith17 and Z Winged Dangler like this

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Inflation happens. Kane and Toews set the new standard, and I'm sure their agents had them do it on purpose. No biggie. Everything goes up over time. People acting shocked and annoyed are being ridiculous. Did they think the cap would go up and everyone would just keep making their old salaries? The world doesn't work like that. Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Salary wise they didn't set the bar. Players in these long term contracts are already getting paid that type of money. It's just because of the longer contracts their cap is lower, just look at Weber. If you took the first 8 years of his contract his cap hit would be $11.5M. Suter and Parise would be at $10M cap hit if you only look at the first 8 years. Cap hits are rising but salaries are around the same. This hurts role players IMO, unless the cap keeps going up.

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- Fighting your team mates

- NBA attitude

- risky in your own zone

- putting yourself always over the team

= reward 9 million per, I always thought this guy is Montreals version of Karlsson but Karlsson doesn't come with attitude problems. Ok he is playing under an absolute microscope so give him 0.3k per more that's 6,8...but But what do I know Montreal - like someone has quoted - is it's own hockey universe. And all of a sudden even on an 8 year contract Webers 7,85 AAV is an absolute steal, same goes for Doughty, Keith, Chara, Suter, Pietrangelo, Vlasic, Kronwall, Seabrook, McDonagh, Phaneuf.

Man the arbitrator really must have hated Montreals presentation 82 million for 8 years ...

as for their lockout: As long as we aren't changing the commissioner they are going to come prepare for it and since fans are always crawling back, nothing will change. The only way to stop this crap is for thee NHLPA to decertisfy

Care to explain exactly what an NBA attitude is?

Putting yourself always over the team??

I was never really a fan, but on CH24 he just seemed like a young, goofy, outgoing, but humble guy. When he made stupid mistakes during games he was the first one to own up to it. He seemed immature when he came into the league but as you pointed out he is absolutely operating under a microscope so his every mistake is magnified a thousand times. He is only 25 years old after all.

He's an extremely talented young player, a Norris winning defenseman, and their franchise. He got pretty much what people expected, especially given his bridge contract. The Canadiens just locked him up through all his prime years.

BottleOfSmoke likes this

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He's a 25 year old star defenseman and the cornerstone of their team along with Price.

Are people saying he's not good enough? His attitude doesn't warrant this deal? Or are you guys saying only forwards should get this kind of money?

Great player! Wpould love to have him as a Wing, but 9,000,000.00 is a huge percentager of the entire teams payroll. It will be even more difficult to surround him with a team.

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Great player! Wpould love to have him as a Wing, but 9,000,000.00 is a huge percentager of the entire teams payroll. It will be even more difficult to surround him with a team.

Still a better deal that the one signed by Quincey and on a different note didn't kronwall sign an extension before Lindstrom and Stuart left where he wasn't their go to defenseman? It would make a lot more sense for why he's paid so little as the first defensemen.

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Care to explain exactly what an NBA attitude is?

Putting yourself always over the team??

I was never really a fan, but on CH24 he just seemed like a young, goofy, outgoing, but humble guy. When he made stupid mistakes during games he was the first one to own up to it. He seemed immature when he came into the league but as you pointed out he is absolutely operating under a microscope so his every mistake is magnified a thousand times. He is only 25 years old after all.

He's an extremely talented young player, a Norris winning defenseman, and their franchise. He got pretty much what people expected, especially given his bridge contract. The Canadiens just locked htrim up through all his prime years.

Sure for me it means: acting like you are above the team, over the top celebrations, butting heads with your coach and/or teammates. I really can't stand such attitudes stopped following soccer after it became more like the NBA too, I think this trend with more and more young cocky guys such as Kadri, Yakupov, Eller and him is alarming :(

Their franchise is and has been Price

Trust me I understand the whole microscope point that's why I've said pay him a bit more and be done with it. I really thought the arbitrator would have awarded less..

If I'm paying 9 per for a defenseman my first priority would be can I trust his defensive skills when the game is on the line? And just like Karlsson I wouldn't they are offensive defenseman and good ones at that but not reliable in their own end.

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Sure for me it means: acting like you are above the team, over the top celebrations, butting heads with your coach and/or teammates. I really can't stand such attitudes stopped following soccer after it became more like the NBA too, I think this trend with more and more young cocky guys such as Kadri, Yakupov, Eller and him is alarming :( Their franchise is and has been Price Trust me I understand the whole microscope point that's why I've said pay him a bit more and be done with it. I really thought the arbitrator would have awarded less.. If I'm paying 9 per for a defenseman my first priority would be can I trust his defensive skills when the game is on the line? And just like Karlsson I wouldn't they are offensive defenseman and good ones at that but not reliable in their own end.

Just to clarify, the arbitrator didn't award him the 8 year contract, they can only award a 1 year contract. The Canadiens and Subban agreed the 8 year deal to avoid arbitration - because otherwise Subban would be 1 year away from UFA and after the way Montreal have messed him around he probly would have walked.

As for the salary, as Dragonballz pointed out above, the only reason the cap hit is so high is because they can't tack on the throwaway years on the end to lower the AAV like we did with Z and Franzen.

The big contracts signed this summer have all been signed in anticipation of the cap continuing to go up. $9M may seem like a lot now, but in 5-6 years time it will be seen as good value.

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Just to clarify, the arbitrator didn't award him the 8 year contract, they can only award a 1 year contract. The Canadiens and Subban agreed the 8 year deal to avoid arbitration - because otherwise Subban would be 1 year away from UFA and after the way Montreal have messed him around he probly would have walked.

As for the salary, as Dragonballz pointed out above, the only reason the cap hit is so high is because they can't tack on the throwaway years on the end to lower the AAV like we did with Z and Franzen.

The big contracts signed this summer have all been signed in anticipation of the cap continuing to go up. $9M may seem like a lot now, but in 5-6 years time it will be seen as good value.

So basically Bergervin and Meahan agreed on that contract ? Wow, why all the hold up then did his camp even ask for more ?

I understand the CBA trust me, that's why I was one of the very few people who weren't shocked when Perry, Getzlaf signed and same again with Toews, Kane. But Toews is easily a top 3 player in the league (in terms of total package), proven winner and has an unreal resumee at 27 years of age, Kane is a great player too (not as good mind you) but he had the Buffalo leverage so I can understand both contracts.

9 Million at least to me would indicate elite defenseman and Subban ISN'T that far from it. Like I've pointed out I see him and Karlsson more as a 13 forward with defensive responsibilities but both are nowhere near Weber, Suter, Keith, Seabrook, Doughty and Pietrangelo level. And at 7 mill per I'd rather have Phaneuf than Subban at 9 mill per.

Anyway I don't have to pay it and it hurts a playoff opponent so for us as Wingsfans it might be a great contract *g*

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I would also count Subban as an elite defenseman, he may not be as complete as Weber but he is also not as one dimensional as Mike Green. He is definitely a game changer as seen in the series vs the Bruins. I think Subban is much more of a team guy than he is given credit for. He is no Yakupov by any stretch.

Dabura and haroldsnepsts like this

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But Franzen is on a terrible contract right?

Franzen is a wet turd when compared to Subban.

While an overpayment now - there's a good chance Subban will be in contention of the Norris Trophy in these next several years, and by year 4 of this contract other high caliber DMen will be making this amount, or near it.

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But Franzen is on a terrible contract right?

In a few years, yes. And especially since they changed the recapture rule in the last CBA and didn't grandfather it in.

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Subban shoulda gotten 8, he's not better than Doughty/Weber although he benefits from having a Norris to his name

The comparisons to the Kane/Toews deal are sort of valid, but at the same time, let's keep in mind that Kane and Toews are two of the most popular, recognizable players in the NHL.Chicago has the biggest bandwagon fanbase in the NHL and if you lose Captain Serious and Kaner, you lose a whole bunch of revenue.

Montreal likes Subban but they'll always have a fan base and it wouldn't be the end of the world if they lost him.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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@THNKenCampbell: Important not on PK Subban contact: No trade clause does not kick in until after the 2015-16 season.

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Subban shoulda gotten 8, he's not better than Doughty/Weber although he benefits from having a Norris to his name

The comparisons to the Kane/Toews deal are sort of valid, but at the same time, let's keep in mind that Kane and Toews are two of the most popular, recognizable players in the NHL.Chicago has the biggest bandwagon fanbase in the NHL and if you lose Captain Serious and Kaner, you lose a whole bunch of revenue.

Montreal likes Subban but they'll always have a fan base and it wouldn't be the end of the world if they lost him.

It'd absolutely be the end of the world for the Canadiens if they were to lose Subban. I mean, I get what you're saying about Chicago, and you have a point, but the Habs' fanbase was having a nuclear meltdown during arbitration because they thought they might be losing Subban. All their hopes and dreams rest on him and Price, really. (Even Bob McKenzie and Elliotte Friedman were fanning the flames of fear.) And, again, he's just a very likable person, a great ambassador for the team and for the NHL and hockey in general and even Canada, and one of the best hockey players in the world. He's certainly right up there with Toews and Kane in terms of his importance to his team (and to the NHL in terms of marketing). Chicago doesn't have the crazy hockey culture the Habs have, true, but a generational franchise player is a generational franchise player. The Habs lost one of those in Roy. For that to happen all over again with Subban? Riots in the streets of Montreal.

As for the contract itself and the comparisons to Doughty and Weber, each of those deals was reached a few years ago, so you can't really compare them. This deal may be a wee bit high right now, but it's an eight year deal. The cap will be rising, which means inflation, which means the deeper we get into the contract, the better the value. And, of course, the only reason the term is eight years is the new CBA. Were this pre-new CBA, the term would be longer and the yearly hit would be spread out more, so it wouldn't be $9M every year.

Edited by Dabura
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Subban shoulda gotten 8, he's not better than Doughty/Weber although he benefits from having a Norris to his name

The comparisons to the Kane/Toews deal are sort of valid, but at the same time, let's keep in mind that Kane and Toews are two of the most popular, recognizable players in the NHL.Chicago has the biggest bandwagon fanbase in the NHL and if you lose Captain Serious and Kaner, you lose a whole bunch of revenue.

Montreal likes Subban but they'll always have a fan base and it wouldn't be the end of the world if they lost him.

A link I posted earlier in the thread makes the important point that Doughty signed his contract right after his entry level contract expired. So he was making a couple million more than Subban since then. The Habs went the bridge year route and Subban was essentially underpaid until now.

As for Weber, his contract only looks cheaper than Subban's because it's a cap circumventing 14 year deal that is no longer allowed under the current CBA. He gets paid $1 million for the last three years of his contract in 2024, 25, and 26.

This makes Webers contract look like a steal, and it's not.

It's not, for the reasons I listed above. It's a cap cheater. Then factor in that Weber gets almost all his salary paid in one huge chunk, and it's less than ideal from a business perspective.

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Sure for me it means: acting like you are above the team, over the top celebrations, butting heads with your coach and/or teammates. I really can't stand such attitudes stopped following soccer after it became more like the NBA too, I think this trend with more and more young cocky guys such as Kadri, Yakupov, Eller and him is alarming :( Their franchise is and has been Price Trust me I understand the whole microscope point that's why I've said pay him a bit more and be done with it. I really thought the arbitrator would have awarded less.. If I'm paying 9 per for a defenseman my first priority would be can I trust his defensive skills when the game is on the line? And just like Karlsson I wouldn't they are offensive defenseman and good ones at that but not reliable in their own end.

How has he acted like he is above the team? What over the top celebrations? I've seen him be incredibly excited for a goal but I've never seen him do a dance over a flaming stick or anything. It sounds like their relationship is actually fine now but Therrien is as much to blame with his handling of Subban and any friction there.

If they thought the arbitrator would have awarded less, they would've done that. They just locked Subban up for his prime years and he's likely only going to get better.

Like I said, I'm not even particularly a huge fan of the guy. I just don't really understand why he gets as much criticism as he does for what are usually very minor things. I don't lump him in with the guys who are sliding down on one knee and pointing their stick at the goalie like a rifle. Or flopping all over the ice to draw penalties. Guys like Ryan Clowe can interfere with the play from the bench and it's somehow no big deal. Shawn Thornton squirts water in Subban's face during play and it's somehow just gamesmanship.

Can you imagine the reaction if Subban had done that to someone?

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I just don't really understand why he gets as much criticism as he does for what are usually very minor things.

I do. People just don't like to admit it.

I am in no way saying that the people who dislike him here at LGW do so for race-related reasons, but the reality is that prejudice is, unfortunately, alive and well within the hockey community. Does he have a bit of moxie? Sure. But if he were a white Canadian *some* people wouldn't look twice at his actions or have a problem with his "attitude." I don't think there is anything over the top about P.K.'s actions, and he is a young kid who will continue to mature.

Mods, feel free to delete if you think this will stir s*** or incite politics discussions, but I felt it needed to be said.

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I do. People just don't like to admit it.

I am in no way saying that the people who dislike him here at LGW do so for race-related reasons, but the reality is that prejudice is, unfortunately, alive and well within the hockey community. Does he have a bit of moxie? Sure. But if he were a white Canadian *some* people wouldn't look twice at his actions or have a problem with his "attitude." I don't think there is anything over the top about P.K.'s actions, and he is a young kid who will continue to mature.

Mods, feel free to delete if you think this will stir s*** or incite politics discussions, but I felt it needed to be said.

I agree. I think his play and conduct off the ice during the last playoffs didn't seem to match up with the media criticism at all. So then you have to wonder, is it something along the lines of what you're saying? It is a valid point.

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I agree. I think his play and conduct off the ice during the last playoffs didn't seem to match up with the media criticism at all. So then you have to wonder, is it something along the lines of what you're saying? It is a valid point.

I agree, it's valid. They act like he's Sean Avery or something.

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