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captain2005

Goalie Battle

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To be honest, I've seen the same excuses for both guys. Just depends on how you want to remember things (whose 'side' you were on)...

But as Chaps said, Mrazek is gonna get a little bit longer leash than Howard. He's younger, he's the future in net, and frankly he's just better.

On top of that, this is like the 3rd season in a row where Howard has had not just a bad stretch here or there (which would be normal), but had serious struggles. That can't happen when you're supposed to be (and getting paid like) the number 1 guy and are in the 'prime years' of your career (as in not close to being a rookie anymore and not at the tail end of your playing days. Or however you want to define 'prime years', you guys know what I mean!)

All that being said, we need to win some games and stop giving up 5 goals a game regardless of who's in net. By all means play the hot hand, having two goalies is supposed to come in hand in situations like this!

Edited by roboturner

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Mrazek is definitely off lately and Howard has looked better last few games, so he should and likely will get some more starts right now. Given that Mrazek is such an athletic goalie, I wouldn't be shocked at all if his groin tweak isn't affecting him right now. You've got to fully trust your body to play like he does, and if he's not 100% on that front right now, it's hard to imagine it not affecting his game. Give him a bit more rest right now to get it straight and get him going down the final stretch and I think he'll be fine come playoff time.

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The $m ? Is will Kenny try and keep both next year? Petr is due a raise soon but would he except a smaller 2 year deal on the promise of big bucks when Howard's contract expires, could we really carry over$9m of netminding contracts for 2 years thou? Many GMs would try and trade Howard in the off season for help were we need it, but we are talking Kenny and his over loyalty mindset. There are plenty of cheaper back up options this upcoming off season as well as the guys in GRs. My biggest worry is Kenny trying to lowball Mrazek to keep Howard and Petr then not signing and trying the UFA pool instead. Please for the love of God don't let this scenario unfold.

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Mrazek will be an RFA, not UFA, so our likelihood of losing him is slim to none. I do think Howard is gone in the off-season, especially if the cap goes down. I don't see any way we can carry $9 million in goalies if the cap goes down, all the more so when you consider that Mrazek generally has been getting the brunt of the starts. You can't pay a guy $5 million to start maybe 20 games next year. And do we really think Howard will be content to stay as a backup at this point? If he is, then I don't know what that says about his confidence as a starter. If he believes he should be starting and Mrazek remains on this team, he's going to want out.

Edited by gcom007

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http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/03/14/flames-will-cast-a-wide-net-to-find-a-goalie/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

This is where Holland has to offer Howard and 2.25 mil per year for last 3 years for a conditional 2nd round pick in 2019 if the Flames win a playoff series in the next 3 years in which Howard wins 4 games. The Flames pay Howard 3 mil and get a decent goalie. Wings pay Coreau 1 mil per and save 2 mil. Win win.

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http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/03/14/flames-will-cast-a-wide-net-to-find-a-goalie/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

This is where Holland has to offer Howard and 2.25 mil per year for last 3 years for a conditional 2nd round pick in 2019 if the Flames win a playoff series in the next 3 years in which Howard wins 4 games. The Flames pay Howard 3 mil and get a decent goalie. Wings pay Coreau 1 mil per and save 2 mil. Win win.

If/when Howard is moved, Holland will look for an experienced journeyman backup i'm sure because there are tons of free agent options. Can't see him going with Coreau as full time backup yet. When Osgood was starting in 2009 he signed Conklin because he didn't feel Howard was quite ready. Same with Gustavsson last season. Didn't want to put too much pressure on Mrazek yet, but as we all know he ended up being the starter by season's end.

Edited by chaps80

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With the resurgence of Howard and Petr coming back down to earth, I can see Holland holding on to Jimmy for another season. The mentioned resurgence will also help in re-signing Petr to a more modest bridge deal. As long as Jimmy plays the way he has been, I don't mind him staying, if it keeps Petr's salary down. I'd say $8M for both would be a great deal.

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With the resurgence of Howard and Petr coming back down to earth, I can see Holland holding on to Jimmy for another season. The mentioned resurgence will also help in re-signing Petr to a more modest bridge deal. As long as Jimmy plays the way he has been, I don't mind him staying, if it keeps Petr's salary down. I'd say $8M for both would be a great deal.

No. We need go get rid of that contract now. The guy has a poor span of about 3 months every season. He's done in Detroit. Mrazek is our guy and everyone knows it. If he wasn't so sick this past week he'd be starting tomorrow night. Petr will take over Thursday for pretty well the end of the year.

We need to dumb Howard's salary to create cap room for going after stammer. It's possible to get him and the only way to even try is to have cap space.

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No. We need go get rid of that contract now. The guy has a poor span of about 3 months every season. He's done in Detroit. Mrazek is our guy and everyone knows it. If he wasn't so sick this past week he'd be starting tomorrow night. Petr will take over Thursday for pretty well the end of the year.

We need to dumb Howard's salary to create cap room for going after stammer. It's possible to get him and the only way to even try is to have cap space.

I don't see Howard getting moved until after July 1st anyways, so I'm pretty sure getting Stamkos or not will happen first.

I say get rid of Howard when the right deal comes along. If we get rid of him but retain a large % of salary, I would rather just keep him. If a deal come along where we get assets and retain nothing, do it. Nothing against Howie, just cap management.

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I don't see Howard getting moved until after July 1st anyways, so I'm pretty sure getting Stamkos or not will happen first.

I say get rid of Howard when the right deal comes along. If we get rid of him but retain a large % of salary, I would rather just keep him. If a deal come along where we get assets and retain nothing, do it. Nothing against Howie, just cap management.

Keeping Howard on as backup would be fine if he didn't make so much money, but with Mrazek being RFA I see him getting a huge raise. I know offer sheets don't happen very often, but there is a chance that a team with cap to burn could give him a crazy offer that Holland would have to match, and you can't have $10 million+ tied up in goaltending with things being tight already. Holland will have to find a way to move Howard without retaining too much salary even if he doesn't get much or anything in return. Trade him, waive him, buy him out if that's even possible. Then sign one of the 20 or so UFA backups for cheap. I don't really see a way around it.

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Would be nice if Howard plays most of the rest of the games and the games Mrazek plays are subpar (although obviously still enough to win).

His recent "decline" will certainly help when it comes to giving him a fair contract this summer.

The way he was playing in January (Vezina like really) I was starting to think Holland would have to pay the hell out of him. Which would really hurt us in cap space.

Before people freak out and get angry and start defending Mrazek. I'm just speaking in terms of cap management.

Edited by kickazz

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Well it appear that Jimmy will be playing against TB. I'm not sure about that decision since Petr can and has beat TB.

Still not 100% I heard. Needs more practice time. Only got like 15 minutes in yesterday I believe. Apparently he was really reallllly sick.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/03/jimmy_howard_will_try_to_lead.html

Edited by kickazz

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Well it appear that Jimmy will be playing against TB. I'm not sure about that decision since Petr can and has beat TB.

Petr didn't have a full practice today khan said. He shared his net with our 3rd goalie which tells me petr didn't feel he was 100 % ready to go. He will get another practice or 2 in and play Thursday against the Habs.

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Keeping Howard on as backup would be fine if he didn't make so much money, but with Mrazek being RFA I see him getting a huge raise. I know offer sheets don't happen very often, but there is a chance that a team with cap to burn could give him a crazy offer that Holland would have to match, and you can't have $10 million+ tied up in goaltending with things being tight already. Holland will have to find a way to move Howard without retaining too much salary even if he doesn't get much or anything in return. Trade him, waive him, buy him out if that's even possible. Then sign one of the 20 or so UFA backups for cheap. I don't really see a way around it.

I completely agree. My point was that if we get rid of him, I want it to be in a way where we dont eat salary. Getting anything picks/prospects would just be a bonus.

My issue with retaining any salary is this: Howard has a 5.29 million cap hit, lets say we retain 2 million, then we are left with 3.29 in cap space. If we sign a good backup at 1.5 million a year (a hillier type), that leaves us with a saving 1.8 million. I would rather have Howard then an inferior backup if the difference is only 1.8 million. Now, if we can trade him and not retain anything, I would do it in a heart beat.

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Well then you trade Howard, Ericsson, Smith and Nyquist at the draft for picks to open up salary. Then you gamble (again, as with Suter/parise) and throw the wallet at Stammer and Yandle. Then sign a Jonas Enroth or Jonas Hiller to backup Mrazek.

But from a business standpoint, IMO you have to get Petr re-signed before you deal Jimmy. If Jimmy gets dealt, that means more money you have to give Petr...

Edited by LeftWinger

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Take Mrazek to arbitration. Bet he doesn't get awarded that much 3.5-4M ? Don't know much about the NHL's offer sheet system tho

mrazek makes $800k....there is no way he'll get anywhere close to that in arbitration. $2 mil at the most. maybe 2.5....tripling his salary.

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My issue with retaining any salary is this: Howard has a 5.29 million cap hit, lets say we retain 2 million, then we are left with 3.29 in cap space. If we sign a good backup at 1.5 million a year (a hillier type), that leaves us with a saving 1.8 million. I would rather have Howard then an inferior backup if the difference is only 1.8 million. Now, if we can trade him and not retain anything, I would do it in a heart beat.

I kinda see your point, but any savings are good in the cap era, and Howard is just too inconsistent to make that much money. I'd be happy if they saved $2 million and signed someone like Raanta than I would if they kept Howard.

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