How can so many things be bad?

[chaps80 1,591]

15 hours ago, kickazz said:

 Just wait till we draft Nick Lidstrom's son

Holland would pass him over and let another team have him to get rid of some s***ty contract he can't dump.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Holland would pass him over and let another team have him to get rid of some s***ty contract he can't dump.

More likely that Holland takes him and everyone hates him for not being as good as his dad

[Barrie 900]

We need to get a #1 stud defenseman, but that's easier said then done. If we miss the playoffs, we have a decent chance at drafting one. I think we're in good shape with our forwards and goaltending, but we need to rebuild the blueline.

[kliq 3,755]

58 minutes ago, Barrie said:

We need to get a #1 stud defenseman, but that's easier said then done. If we miss the playoffs, we have a decent chance at drafting one. I think we're in good shape with our forwards and goaltending, but we need to rebuild the blueline.

I wish I agreed with this, but #1 d-men are the hardest position to draft for. The majority of stud d-men are lower end pics. If you get a lottery pick or even a top 5 pick you are better off taking a forward unless its a sure thing which really doesn't happen often.

[Barrie 900]

3 minutes ago, kliq said:

I wish I agreed with this, but #1 d-men are the hardest position to draft for. The majority of stud d-men are lower end pics. If you get a lottery pick or even a top 5 pick you are better off taking a forward unless its a sure thing which really doesn't happen often.

Yea, it's easier said then done. Lidstrom was a 3rd rounder, teams need to be lucky when finding that #1 guy. That's why defensemen who are UFA's can cash in big.

[kliq 3,755]

Just now, Barrie said:

Yea, it's easier said then done. Lidstrom was a 3rd rounder, teams need to be lucky when finding that #1 guy. That's why defensemen who are UFA's can cash in big.

Unfortunately you're right. This is why I want Holland to make a trade for a guy like Trouba or Hamilton. its easier to find a Mantha then a Trouba.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

why are people so surprised?
This is a CAP team without a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and no stars. So that means either rookies or career second line centers have to play way over their abilities and so far it shows with the results. Will Holland get fired? No, because Chris isn't like his dad at all he is a business guy first and a fan third or fourth.

People can blame Blashill all they want but the fact is you can't turn an old Ford into a Ferrari no matter how many parts you change. He doesn't have much to work with and lacks experience which isn't his fault.

[marcaractac 3,963]

42 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

why are people so surprised?
This is a CAP team without a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and no stars. So that means either rookies or career second line centers have to play way over their abilities and so far it shows with the results. Will Holland get fired? No, because Chris isn't like his dad at all he is a business guy first and a fan third or fourth.

People can blame Blashill all they want but the fact is you can't turn an old Ford into a Ferrari no matter how many parts you change. He doesn't have much to work with and lacks experience which isn't his fault.

 

Wanna know what is Blashill's fault? When he spent the offseason calling out his own mistakes, and now continues to make the exact same mistakes over... and over... and over. 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Wanna know what is Blashill's fault? When he spent the offseason calling out his own mistakes, and now continues to make the exact same mistakes over... and over... and over. 

Well, maybe just maybe he wasn't the best choice for this team going forward? Again, I'm not blaming him but I really found it odd that Holland interviewed nobody else. Personally I wanted the Koala as the next head coach.

 

33 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I dont blame Blashill.  He cant show up the GM and send guys Holland signs straight to the minors.  How anyone thinks it's better to be playing Ott and Miller over Mantha and Bertuzzi for the now or for the future is beyond me.  We cant trade our prospects if they dont show NHL promise.  They cant show NHL promise from Grand Rapids.  It's that simple.  We need to ice our best 12 every game, with an inclination of what's best for the future.  We don't do that because our GM has this weird fetish for old, loyal, vets 5 years past their prime.  Kronwall, Miller, and Ott are all USELESS to this team now and for the future.  But they are playing.  So we will continue to struggle.

Agreed this mess is truly the managements fault but nothing will happen or change because Chris is always the last man in and the first one out, I don't get the feeling that he is really into it which is sad. Holland will for sure ride out his contract and then the Captain has to fix his mess which will be a tough task. Personally I'm starting to hope whenever Chris takes fully over that he sells the Wings to someone like his dad, Pegula etc. Having a non fan as an owner is never a good thing.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by frankgrimes

[marcaractac 3,963]

42 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Well, maybe just maybe he wasn't the best choice for this team going forward? Again, I'm not blaming him but I really found it odd that Holland interviewed nobody else. Personally I wanted the Koala as the next head coach.

1

Blash was the right choice at the time. I will never fault Holland for that. It just hasn't panned out. These things happen. Some great AHL coaches find success in the NHL, some do not. Other just need to f*** up a few times first. 

[e_prime 1,936]

1 hour ago, frankgrimes said:

Holland will for sure ride out his contract and then the Captain has to fix his mess which will be a tough task. Personally I'm starting to hope whenever Chris takes fully over that he sells the Wings to someone like his dad, Pegula etc. Having a non fan as an owner is never a good thing.

 

The Captain isn't coming back.  Not anytime soon.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Blashill isn't an NHL coach.  They have no system.  Every player has regressed.  He's followed Babcock's lead and tries to turn players into something that they're not.  Smith should never have been put solely on the PK and been forced to become a defense first defenseman.  Jurco has been forced to play a grinder role.  Helm has been used in a scoring role when he can't score far too much.  They want Mantha, a natural shooter, to play like Homer because he's big.  He allows Tatar to play like that guy in your beer league who refuses to pass to anyone because he ALMOST played in the CHL when he showed up to an open tryout.  He keeps sending Sheahan out there despite him being ineffective in almost every area of the game.

 

That's how it's partly on him and not all on management.

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Blashill isn't an NHL coach.  They have no system.  Every player has regressed.  He's followed Babcock's lead and tries to turn players into something that they're not.  Smith should never have been put solely on the PK and been forced to become a defense first defenseman.  Jurco has been forced to play a grinder role.  Helm has been used in a scoring role when he can't score far too much.  They want Mantha, a natural shooter, to play like Homer because he's big.  He allows Tatar to play like that guy in your beer league who refuses to pass to anyone because he ALMOST played in the CHL when he showed up to an open tryout.  He keeps sending Sheahan out there despite him being ineffective in almost every area of the game.

 

That's how it's partly on him and not all on management.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree. The insistence of this organization to try to turn players into something they're not is what frustrates me the most. Not every player should be expected to play a defense first game. Sure, every player should play responsibly, but don't sit / demote a kid that generates offense because he lost his man on one shift. Let the offensive guys do what they do best, produce offense, and let the defensive guys defend...

One thing I will say though is that I've been impressed with how well Sproul has been utilized thus far. And whatta ya know? The kid is actually starting to gain some confidence and has been playing great...

Edited November 25, 2016 by krsmith17

[TheXym 2,606]

You guys are hitting it on the head in a big way.  Maybe, just maybe, the actually using Sproul correctly will continue and start a trend... one can hope, anyway.  I just hope that the guys who have been misused haven't suffered irreversible damage to their confidence.

[kliq 3,755]

6 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Agreed this mess is truly the managements fault but nothing will happen or change because Chris is always the last man in and the first one out, I don't get the feeling that he is really into it which is sad. Holland will for sure ride out his contract and then the Captain has to fix his mess which will be a tough task. Personally I'm starting to hope whenever Chris takes fully over that he sells the Wings to someone like his dad, Pegula etc. Having a non fan as an owner is never a good thing.

 

 

3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Blashill isn't an NHL coach.  They have no system.  Every player has regressed.  He's followed Babcock's lead and tries to turn players into something that they're not.  Smith should never have been put solely on the PK and been forced to become a defense first defenseman.  Jurco has been forced to play a grinder role.  Helm has been used in a scoring role when he can't score far too much.  They want Mantha, a natural shooter, to play like Homer because he's big.  He allows Tatar to play like that guy in your beer league who refuses to pass to anyone because he ALMOST played in the CHL when he showed up to an open tryout.  He keeps sending Sheahan out there despite him being ineffective in almost every area of the game.

 

That's how it's partly on him and not all on management.

Sorry Frank, but I 100% agree with Dickie here. I'm not going to sit here and say that management has done an perfect job, but they gave Blashill a roster with a ceiling and a floor, and Blashill is pretty much at the floor of what he's getting out of them.

Pretty much everyone has regressed since Blashill took over. Sure you can argue that Babs is a great coach and that was bound to happen, but it shouldn't have been such a strong regression. Holland really should have interviewed more candidates.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by kliq

[The Secret 304]

This team has the talent to be a fast and hard team to play against but is not. I personally put the blame squarely on Blashill and his terrible system. Get a real coach and this team plays far better.... not cup winning better but worth watching better. I was a fan through the "deadwing" era... That era was filled with many losses and disappointments but it had Yzerman + some washed up stars + Probert and Kocur so it was still fun to watch. This teams play just sucks to watch unless you enjoy watching Pros (some ridiculously over paid like Abdelkader, Helm and....) looking confused, disorganized, uninspired and well not like an NHL team. Blashill has to go and a good coach needs to be found, sooner then later. Maybe a new coach will help us preserve our streak because the way this team is playing right now the streak ends this year.

[Echolalia 2,961]

17 hours ago, kliq said:

 

Sorry Frank, but I 100% agree with Dickie here. I'm not going to sit here and say that management has done an perfect job, but they gave Blashill a roster with a ceiling and a floor, and Blashill is pretty much at the floor of what he's getting out of them.

Pretty much everyone has regressed since Blashill took over. Sure you can argue that Babs is a great coach and that was bound to happen, but it shouldn't have been such a strong regression. Holland really should have interviewed more candidates.

 

Eh, I mean even if Holland interviewed 100 guys, I still think we would have ended up with Blashill.  He had a flawless resume in every league he's coached, mentored directly under Babcock, and worked directly with the majority of our roster as an assistant coach in the NHL or as head coach in the AHL (or college).  There's certainly a level of risk with hiring a first time NHL coach, but all the best coaches were first timers at one point or another, and the risk was probably calculated to be relatively low with Blashill because of his familiarity with our system.  Unfortunately he's really struggling.  I wouldn't peg the blame on Holland for that, but I will point the finger his way if he decides to wait 5 years before bringing in someone new.

[kliq 3,755]

13 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

Eh, I mean even if Holland interviewed 100 guys, I still think we would have ended up with Blashill.  He had a flawless resume in every league he's coached, mentored directly under Babcock, and worked directly with the majority of our roster as an assistant coach in the NHL or as head coach in the AHL (or college).  There's certainly a level of risk with hiring a first time NHL coach, but all the best coaches were first timers at one point or another, and the risk was probably calculated to be relatively low with Blashill because of his familiarity with our system.  Unfortunately he's really struggling.  I wouldn't peg the blame on Holland for that, but I will point the finger his way if he decides to wait 5 years before bringing in someone new.

I will be the first to admit, my comments are with hindsight. At the time I was 100% for Blashill getting the job.

[Buppy 1,720]

On 11/25/2016 at 1:42 PM, DickieDunn said:

Blashill isn't an NHL coach.  They have no system.  Every player has regressed.  He's followed Babcock's lead and tries to turn players into something that they're not.  Smith should never have been put solely on the PK and been forced to become a defense first defenseman.  Jurco has been forced to play a grinder role.  Helm has been used in a scoring role when he can't score far too much.  They want Mantha, a natural shooter, to play like Homer because he's big.  He allows Tatar to play like that guy in your beer league who refuses to pass to anyone because he ALMOST played in the CHL when he showed up to an open tryout.  He keeps sending Sheahan out there despite him being ineffective in almost every area of the game.

 

That's how it's partly on him and not all on management.

22 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree. The insistence of this organization to try to turn players into something they're not is what frustrates me the most. Not every player should be expected to play a defense first game. Sure, every player should play responsibly, but don't sit / demote a kid that generates offense because he lost his man on one shift. Let the offensive guys do what they do best, produce offense, and let the defensive guys defend...

Except none of that is actually true.

Smith has been used on the PK because you need at least 5 D for it. More if you have injuries. He's never been asked or expected to be a primary PKer. He started out getting PP time, but wasn't any good at it.

Jurco was put on the 4th line because he was a worse player, and worse scorer, than the players ahead of him.

Helm has been used as a complimentary player on a scoring line. 

Mantha isn't being asked to play like Homer. He's asked to play net front on the PP (which is not synonymous with "play like Homer") because he's taking away time from Abby and Sheahan, so he's the best option available.

The Tatar comment is just plain stupid.

Sheahan has been a solid player. He hasn't been producing and he's been demoted and his icetime reduced lately. We don't have anyone better to put in the lineup.

The team has to do what's best for the team, which isn't always going to be perfect for every player. Particularly for guys like Smith and Jurco, who aren't that good, and kids like AA and Mantha who still need to establish themselves and adapt to the NHL game. 

Not every player is expected to be "defense first". In fact, I could argue that players like Glendening, Miller, Ott, Andersson, Ferraro are/were here specifically to reduce the defensive responsibility of other players while still being able to play guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, AA, and Mantha.  And no one has been scratched or demoted for poor defense alone. Players like Jurco, Smith, Pulk and Mantha last year were demoted because they're scorers who weren't scoring very well. Every time we've had a player come in and score at a good rate, they've stayed in the lineup regardless of their defensive ability. If Mantha keeps scoring, he'll stay. If Jurco gets in and starts scoring, he'll stay.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

38 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Tatar looks extremely expendable at the moment.  

He's playing injured.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

7 pts, -7 in 21 games

I didn't say he's playing well injured.

 

We lack offense and Tatar is usually a good offensive threat. He's not expendable to me until Larkin, Mantha, AA and Nyquist are all lighting it up.

[kickazz 5,459]

Tatar gets a D- for being stupid and not letting his arm heal this summer.

But no he's not expendable. He's about to be a steal if we can use this lack of performance to get a cheap contract out of him.

Ofcourse Ken Holland can't be an idiot and be generous either. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Yeah, Tatar's play this season has definitely worked him down the depth chart, but selling low on a guy like him right now is silly.  He's a good player.  With AA healthy I'd think about something like this though.

Nyq-Larkin-Vanek

Z-AA-Mantha

Tatar-Neilsen-Abby

Jurco-Glen-Sheahan
 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He's playing injured.

Yeah, he had a chronic base of headuphisarse