DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 who is at fault? As far as I'm concerned, it's a three headed monster. Ownership has focused on the new barn and the Tigers, Holland is just coasting, and Blashill is a moron. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I feel like if you ever saw Helm and Abby in public, you would great them in a similar fashion to Jerry Seinfeld greeting Newman lol. I voted Blashill, hes just not doing a good job with the talent he has. Number 2 is an exaggeration. I dont think the Ilitch's don't care. If anything the Tigers are in a much worse spot then the Wings. They have an aging roster that cant win now, with zero prospects in the minors because DD traded them all. If you wrote "Ownership doesn't grasp the post cap nature of the NHL", that I feel would have more merit and could get some votes. Edited December 17, 2016 by kliq 1 derblaueClaus reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusDRW 155 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 Ownership has nothing to do with the current situation. They provided Red Wings one of the highest payroll in the league, what else can they do? Inept management, basically, living from the past is what our real problem is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylee 727 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 please get rid of Blashill 1 The Secret reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 Holland he has become a stale and delusional GM. He knew the clock was ticking on Lids and when Parise and Suter decided to sign elsewhere he didn't have a plan B and has since been unable to fix the defense. Traded away picks for 2 months of veteran services and then decided to bring in another longterm over 30 year contract this off-season instead of taking the much needed defenseman who fell due to injury problems. Also Holland was the guy only interviewing Blashill and nobody else. Ownership has provided all the resources needed but of course it would be nice if fixing the Wings would be their number 1 priority again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymom1960 5,107 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I think there should have been one more question--getting rid of both Blash and Holland. Edited December 17, 2016 by Hockeymom1960 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greenrebellion 415 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 I blame parity and the fact that we haven't had a top 10 draft pick in decades. Everyone was mesmerized by maintaining the streak, the fact that it is coming to an end this season will be a VERY good thing for this team in the long run. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 The payroll is where it's at because they needed to deal with the LTIR guys. If a team isn't at the cap on day 1 of the season, they don't get max relief. I think they also wanted to push The Streak along as long as they could keep it on life support so they could use it as marketing purposes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) Number 2 doesn't make sense, when did Holland say Helm and Abdelkader are superstars? Serious question. Coming up to a wild conclusion like that is conerning though. I picked Blashill. Would have pick 2 if there was a legit reasoning like "because we're highest in payroll without reslts to show for it" or something. Edited December 17, 2016 by kickazz 1 derblaueClaus reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
derblaueClaus 1,668 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 Who is to blame? LGW.com and especially DickieDunn, because they didn't point out enough how Helm and Abdelkaders contracts suck, Holland is a moron, Jimmy is average, Franzen floats etc. On a more serious note: Hard to say at this point. Scouting plays a role, that we didn't pick very high during the streak, some probably overblown contracts (=Holland) and Blashill so far doesn't look like he is an NHL coach. All in all the situation is far too complex to find the one answer that fits behind a tickbox. 5 greenrebellion, krsmith17, kliq and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 ^ Probably the closest to best answer we'll find. There's a whole host of issues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, kickazz said: ^ Probably the closest to best answer we'll find. There's a whole host of issues. Exactly. If I had to give some reasons off the top of my head, I would say: - Being good for so long leads to an inevitable downturn, no team can escape it - Not having a top 5 pick for decades (though this kind of coincides with my last point)\ - The Wings have always tried to improve their team every off season to try to give themselves the best shot possible. Even while we are not contenders this mind set stays and can stunt the development of some of the kids. - Mike Ilitch has always had a "go for it and win or fail" mentality. Trading away players at the deadline is just not something he is ok with. (again, DD/Tigers situation) - Ken Holland with all the factors above, is not a GM in 2016 who can make up up for it with a blockbuster trade (though I have come to the realization that trades just dont really happen anymore so I am not sure if I even blame him for this) - Babs was a very good coach, and switching to Blashill has led to a major regression. - We have too many of the same type of player. - IMO probably the biggest reason, our vets regressed before our kids developed into superstars. Everyone knows that Holland doesn't view Helm/Abby as superstars, and their contracts dont reflect that. He locked them up to give the team stability. Just look at our performance since they have been out. They are good players and are not the reason we are not good right now. People like scapegoats, and unfortunately some have chosen them. The Illitch family cares, saying they dont care anymore is simply a comment built from frustration. Edited December 17, 2016 by kliq 4 kickazz, Nightfall, krsmith17 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xault 272 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 It's all them. Owner is 87 years old. Think about that, 87 years old. I doubt he even has the ability to own-run the team like before. Which means it's falling to the Sons and Family. Clearly only thing they've cared about is keeping the Streak alive. They have more or less handed the keys to the Kingdom to Holland and turned a blind eye while trying to win a World Series for the Tigers the last 8 years. Which has been another fail boat I won't get into. Holland has lost any touch he had when it comes to pulling off a trade or resigning our own player to contact that doesn't hurt us long term. Our team scouting hasn't drafted a D-man worth a damn since Kronwall, which is now going on 17 years. Blashill has lost the team. He is way to much of the same but a weaker version. He's been handed a team that lacks any elite talent and is expected to make the playoffs, which honestly isn't his fault. Our Future "star-elite" center doesn't even play center because he's bad at faceoffs? Every single team that has a future elite center is guess what position they play? Center, trust me none of theses kid can win a face off to save their own mothers life, but you play them at center to develop them right. Even the great McDavid sucks at faceoffs. At least we are getting a new arena right? That tax payers paying nearly 60%. Which the Pistons will play in now, only another 100 million to fit them in. Let's be honest, sure new arena will sell out at first, even with the Wings icing a bad team. But it won't last long. Nothing will change until you see more empty seats in the new arena than full. Red Wing fans will not sell any arena when Red Wings suck or lack any talent worth watching in person. Few fans of any team of any sport do. Canadian Hockey Fans will and New York team fans do, that's about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 This is management and ownership more than anything, and I say ownership primarily because they continue to allow the management to shoot for the middle. The Wings have lacked urgency and a spark for far too long and need a shakeup, top down. And goodness, I remember being ridiculed for being cautious about Blashill, though I still am giving him the benefit of the doubt personally and think it's possible that he could still develop into a solid coach. It's funny though certainly not shocking that once again, LGW has done what they do and completely turned on someone they once loved. Though to be clear, I'm not saying that it's a completely unjustified train of thought. I've always been on the fence about him and somewhat remain there, I simply don't think it's fair to blame him for the mountain of mediocrity that's been building building up in this organization for years. Anyone who expected him to come in and turn this mess of a team around was delusional. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 Apparently, the majority of you don't believe that responsibility starts at the top. Well I do. Ownership doesn't care. They've let Holland have immunity. When a person has immunity, they can do whatever they want. The problems trickle down in this organization. Blashill can't be the first person blamed. If we had a talent filled roster, then I'd say it's all Blashill's fault. We don't. Our roster is trash. 11 hours ago, RusDRW said: Ownership has nothing to do with the current situation. They provided Red Wings one of the highest payroll in the league, what else can they do? Inept management, basically, living from the past is what our real problem is. The payroll is in no way indicative of the talent of this team. The ownership has to be clueless to dish out money to players that suck. They have complete trust in Holland and probably don't even watch the games. So yes, they're willing to pay, but that doesn't mean you can absolve the ownership. 1 gcom007 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 37 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: It ultimately falls on ownership. It's the owner's job to recognize poor performance/incompetence in the organization and eliminate it. Ken Holland is the biggest illusion the hockey world has ever witnessed. Jim Devellano brought the first wave of star talent to the Red Wings. Hakkan Andersson brought the 2nd wave. Scotty Bowman/Mike Babcock got the talent to perform to the necessary levels. Ken Holland got WAY TOO MUCH of the credit for all of this. If there ever was a case of right place at the right time, it's Ken Holland. The only good thing I can say about Ken Holland is that a great manager surrounds himself with great people. He was smart enough to snow everyone over and give us all the illusion that this was his doing. But with the departure of Bowman and Nill, the fading into old man retirement stage of Devellano, and Scotty Bowman leaving and bringing cups with him to Chicago, we can all see that Ken Holland has very little ability of his own. But the owner re-upped him despite the obvious, so that's his fault. I've suspected and said this for awhile, though never 100% committed to the idea. At this point though, I pretty much accept it as the likely truth. I don't think Holland is incompetent and I'm sure he brings more to the table than is easy to see from the outside. He wouldn't get the industry reverence he does otherwise. Bowman never seemed to have a problem working with him either, and Bowman certainly had the clout to push for a move if he wanted to. But I think Holland's been around too long, gotten too close to people, a little stale maybe, too cautious, he's lost some good people, still seems a bit aloof in the cap world, and so on and so forth. We're well past the point needing a shakeup, it's beyond obvious, but the management team needs a shakeup before that'll ever happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoalieManPat 1,007 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 54 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Yah, good point. Holland has to have some good abilities that allowed him to be inthat position so long. But I think we both agree that we need a new GM now. Being handed a Stanley Cup roster in its prime didnt hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted December 17, 2016 How come Putin wasn't one of the choices? 2 GoalieManPat and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 There's many, many factors that have come together and, to me, a 3 choice poll won't get the diagnosis right. There's always the desire to lay the blame on one person, but I just hope we don't do one of the sacrificial lamb moves that I've seen from other teams where it ends up hurting a team long term. 1 kliq reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 Wrong question. TBH there is no one person to blame and many factors came together to put us here. There real question is: how do we get out of this mess? Maybe the first question is: Is Holland the guy to get us out of this mess? I believe the answer is no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaps80 1,591 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 23 hours ago, DickieDunn said: who is at fault? As far as I'm concerned, it's a three headed monster. Ownership has focused on the new barn and the Tigers, Holland is just coasting, and Blashill is a moron. Pretty much, but Holland is the guiltiest party. He's lazy and makes lazy deals, has no balls when it comes to trades, and should fire Blash because he's in over his head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) No panic in Holland-ville http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/12/18/detroit-red-wings-ken-holland/95583534/ “First off, what is panic going to do?” Holland said. “Certainly we use the words ‘sense of urgency.’ Asked how much is on Wings coach Jeff Blashill to get the team going, Holland said: “I think it’s on everybody. “It’s a hard league during the season, before the trade deadline, to make any moves. Not much going on.” “Certainly most of our top issues have been offense. Power play is part of that.” “We’re not the only team in this position in the league,” Holland said. “There are no quick fixes. ‘Let’s make a trade and that’s going to cure whatever ails you.’ That’s not the league we’re in. We’re not the only team in the boat that we’re talking about.” Edited December 18, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 24 minutes ago, kickazz said: No panic in Holland-ville http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/12/18/detroit-red-wings-ken-holland/95583534/ “First off, what is panic going to do?” Holland said. “Certainly we use the words ‘sense of urgency.’ Asked how much is on Wings coach Jeff Blashill to get the team going, Holland said: “I think it’s on everybody. “It’s a hard league during the season, before the trade deadline, to make any moves. Not much going on.” “Certainly most of our top issues have been offense. Power play is part of that.” “We’re not the only team in this position in the league,” Holland said. “There are no quick fixes. ‘Let’s make a trade and that’s going to cure whatever ails you.’ That’s not the league we’re in. We’re not the only team in the boat that we’re talking about.” This is where Holland has lost it. I don't care about other teams in the league. Nor should we EVER WANT TO BE JUST ANOTHER TEAM! We are the Red Wings! The Best American franchise in the NHL. Just because others are average or struggling that does not excuse us for doing so. This once again that winning the SC is not the goal. It is a shame what this franchise has been allowed to turn into........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, Richdg said: This is where Holland has lost it. I don't care about other teams in the league. Nor should we EVER WANT TO BE JUST ANOTHER TEAM! We are the Red Wings! The Best American franchise in the NHL. Just because others are average or struggling that does not excuse us for doing so. This once again that winning the SC is not the goal. It is a shame what this franchise has been allowed to turn into........ I think his point of referencing other teams is that everybody is looking for a quick fix since so many teams are in the same position. When you have that many teams in the same position (ie. playoff bubble teams), you dont have many teams looking to give up major assets. I dont think his comments are meant to read "I want to be just like every other team!!!". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Richdg said: This is where Holland has lost it. I don't care about other teams in the league. Nor should we EVER WANT TO BE JUST ANOTHER TEAM! We are the Red Wings! The Best American franchise in the NHL. Just because others are average or struggling that does not excuse us for doing so. This once again that winning the SC is not the goal. It is a shame what this franchise has been allowed to turn into........ Motivating words. But aren't you one of the "pro-tank it" people? Edited December 18, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
