Has Blashill finally lost the team?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

15 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Blashill has no chance until Holland is gone or ditches his terrible signings.

 

Kronwall and Z SHOULD be done through LTIR.

 

Nyquist, Ericsson, Daley, and Howard SHOULD be gone soon through trades before UFA or through UFA.

 

Nielsen, Abdelkader, DeKeyser, and Green should be dealt as soon as possible.

 

We have 46 million tied up in those 10 players.  NONE of them can be considered impact players (Z when healthy, but that's done now it seems).  You can't give the coach crappy ingredients and expect him to bake something delicious.

 

Holland's true challenge will be ditching his veteran/loyalty love affair and really committing to the youth movement.  Seems he's taking baby steps, which is a good sign.  But we need him to rid the team of ALL the 32 year old has beens.

 

In all seriousness, why is it that when a kid is thrown into a position over his head and struggles, he's "developing", but when a veteran is thrown into a position over his head and struggles, he's a " has been"? I seriously think some of you guys have a double standard for players based on your own ideas.

Name one player on the roster over the age of 32 who doesn't contribute in some meaningful way. And being overpaid doesn't change that.

You need guys like Green, Daley, Nielsen, Helm, etc on the roster. They help mentor and and develop the kids just as much as the coaches do. And more importantly they're there to take on the tough assignments that the kids aren't ready for yet.

[rwing 29]

On 9/3/2018 at 1:15 PM, Dabura said:

Here's my question: What solid evidence do we have that strongly suggests Blashill is hurting the development of our younger players?

Larkin's coming off a 63-point season. Mantha's coming off a 48-point season. Athanasiou's coming off a 33-point season (and he sat out the first few weeks). Bertuzzi put up 24 points in 48 games. Frk put up 25 points in 68 games and got more PP time than he deserved. Hicketts put up 3 points in 5 games and got some PP time. Mrazek has revealed himself to be a fringe NHLer. Ouellet is a fringe NHLer. Sproul is an AHLer. Do we think a "better" coach gets significantly better production from these players?

I don't agree with Blashill on everything, but I'm not convinced he has a harmful effect on our younger Wings.

No evidence at all your honor. I withdraw my post until further evidence is aquired. 

[Dabura 12,206]

3 minutes ago, rwing said:

No evidence at all your honor. I withdraw my post until further evidence is aquired. 

[Dabura 12,206]

P.S. Welcome to LGW, @rwing! This place is death.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Dabura

[kickazz 5,459]

21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

P.S. Welcome to LGW, @rwing! This place is death.

Bruh he’s been here for a while.

He’s the guy that’s got a billion in his 401k

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Bruh he’s been here for a while.

He’s the guy that’s got a billion in his 401k

As in like a billion $$ in his 401K??

[Dabura 12,206]

2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Bruh he’s been here for a while.

He’s the guy that’s got a billion in his 401k

I don't know what to believe anymore.

[Dabura 12,206]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

In all seriousness, why is it that when a kid is thrown into a position over his head and struggles, he's "developing", but when a veteran is thrown into a position over his head and struggles, he's a " has been"? I seriously think some of you guys have a double standard for players based on your own ideas.

"Wine no longer makes my heart glad; a little of it makes me sad, much makes me melancholy. My soul is faint and impotent; in vain I prick the spur of pleasure into its flank, its strength is gone, it rises no more to the royal leap. I have lost my illusions. Vainly I seek to plunge myself into the boundless sea of joy; it cannot sustain me, or rather, I cannot sustain myself. Once pleasure had but to beckon me, and I mounted, light of foot, sound, and unafraid. When I rode slowly through the woods, it was as if I flew; now when the horse is covered with lather and ready to drop, it seems to me that I do not move. I am solitary as always; forsaken, not by men, which could not hurt me, but by the happy fairies of joy, who used to encircle me in countless multitudes, who met acquaintances everywhere, everywhere showed me an opportunity for pleasure. As an intoxicated man gathers a wild crowd of youths about him, so they flocked about me, the fairies of joy, and I greeted them with a smile. My soul has lost its potentiality. If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard (as "A"), Either/Or

tl;dr Kids = Possibility, hope, allure of the unknown. Veterans = Zzzzz.

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You need guys like Green, Daley, Nielsen, Helm, etc on the roster. They help mentor and and develop the kids just as much as the coaches do. And more importantly they're there to take on the tough assignments that the kids aren't ready for yet.

You do need veterans. But do you need so many veterans? I think that's the point of contention for a lot of people. There's a difference between "some veteran leaders" and "4,000 veterans, mediocrity as far as the eye can see, oldest team in the league." Abdelkader, Daley, DeKeyser, Ericsson, Helm, Glendening, Green, Jensen, Kronwall, Nielsen, Nyquist, Vanek, Zetterberg. So much old. Soooo much old.

But, I mean, it is what it is. The mandate was "Keep The Streak Alive," our prospect pool has been unremarkable for a long time, and so we leaned on veterans. And now we're slowly getting younger, because The Streak is dead and buried and the overall quality of our prospect pool is improving. So it's all good.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Dabura

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

7 minutes ago, Dabura said:

You do need veterans. But do you need so many veterans? I think that's the point of contention for a lot of people. There's a difference between "some veteran leaders" and "4,000 veterans, mediocrity as far as the eye can see, oldest team in the league." Abdelkader, Daley, DeKeyser, Ericsson, Helm, Glendening, Green, Jensen, Kronwall, Nielsen, Nyquist, Vanek, Zetterberg. So much old. Soooo much old.

But, I mean, it is what it is. The mandate was "Keep The Streak Alive," our prospect pool has been unremarkable for a long time, and so we leaned on veterans. And now we're slowly getting younger, because The Streak is dead and buried and the overall quality of our prospect pool is improving. So it's all good.

ow, my heart

[Dabura 12,206]

5 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

ow, my heart

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

"Wine no longer makes my heart glad; a little of it makes me sad, much makes me melancholy. My soul is faint and impotent; in vain I prick the spur of pleasure into its flank, its strength is gone, it rises no more to the royal leap. I have lost my illusions. Vainly I seek to plunge myself into the boundless sea of joy; it cannot sustain me, or rather, I cannot sustain myself. Once pleasure had but to beckon me, and I mounted, light of foot, sound, and unafraid. When I rode slowly through the woods, it was as if I flew; now when the horse is covered with lather and ready to drop, it seems to me that I do not move. I am solitary as always; forsaken, not by men, which could not hurt me, but by the happy fairies of joy, who used to encircle me in countless multitudes, who met acquaintances everywhere, everywhere showed me an opportunity for pleasure. As an intoxicated man gathers a wild crowd of youths about him, so they flocked about me, the fairies of joy, and I greeted them with a smile. My soul has lost its potentiality. If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard (as "A"), Either/Or

tl;dr Kids = Possibility, hope, allure of the unknown. Veterans = Zzzzz.

You do need veterans. But do you need so many veterans? I think that's the point of contention for a lot of people. There's a difference between "some veteran leaders" and "4,000 veterans, mediocrity as far as the eye can see, oldest team in the league." Abdelkader, Daley, DeKeyser, Ericsson, Helm, Glendening, Green, Jensen, Kronwall, Nielsen, Nyquist, Vanek, Zetterberg. So much old. Soooo much old.

But, I mean, it is what it is. The mandate was "Keep The Streak Alive," our prospect pool has been unremarkable for a long time, and so we leaned on veterans. And now we're slowly getting younger, because The Streak is dead and buried and the overall quality of our prospect pool is improving. So it's all good.

I agree. We don't need as many veterans as we have. But a team coming off a long playoff streak is going to have a lot of them. When we look ahead to the next 1-3 years, we see a lot of them coming off the books as the kids that were drafted are becoming NHL ready. We're seeing exactly what a rebuild looks like. This team has been so good for so long, anyone under the age of 35 wouldn't know. Trading away a guy here or there (Sheahan, Tatar) to acquire picks and make room is fine, but when we're talking about dumping every player over the age of 30, or trading away 5 or 6 guys in one or two seasons...well that's just silly.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kickazz 5,459]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I agree. We don't need as many veterans as we have. But a team coming off a long playoff streak is going to have a lot of them. When we look ahead to the next 1-3 years, we see a lot of them coming off the books as the kids that were drafted are becoming NHL ready. We're seeing exactly what a rebuild looks like. This team has been so good for so long, anyone under the age of 35 wouldn't know. Trading away a guy here or there (Sheahan, Tatar) to acquire picks and make room is fine, but when we're talking about dumping every player over the age of 30, or trading away 5 or 6 guys in one or two seasons...well that's just silly.

There’s good veterans and there’s veterans that aren’t really all that good.

I consider Zetterberg a tier 1 veteran. Kronwall a tier 2 veteran. 

Everyone else is tier 3 or below. Nielsen, Daley, Green. None of them have been significant on any team, none of them are known for any leadership skills whatsoever. Nor does anyone bring anything unique to the table. And Helm lol cmon dude. They guy is a career 3rd/4th liner. Please don’t mentor anyone Helm. Especially not with your hands.

This is like saying Mathew Dandenault, Boyd Deverareoux, Aaron Ward, Lapointe would have all been good veterans and mentors lol. 

Kronwall was one of the best open ice hitters and at times still is 1-2 time a year, great leader, was great offensively and defensively in his prime, and amazing work ethic even today. 

Don’t need to say anything about Zetterberg.

Putting veterans all at the same level doesn’t make sense. And just because they are veterans doesn’t mean you have to keep them on the team. Keep the right ones on there.  Move on from the others. 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

The original version was the first movie that ever made me cry. 

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

There’s good veterans and there’s veterans that aren’t really all that good.

I consider Zetterberg a tier 1 veteran. Kronwall a tier 2 veteran. 

Everyone else is tier 3 or below. Nielsen, Daley, Green. None of them have been significant on any team, none of them are known for any leadership skills whatsoever. Nor does anyone bring anything unique to the table. And Helm lol cmon dude. They guy is a career 3rd/4th liner. Please don’t mentor anyone Helm. Especially not with your hands.

This is like saying Mathew Dandenault, Boyd Deverareoux, Aaron Ward, Lapointe would have all been good veterans and mentors lol. 

Kronwall was one of the best open ice hitters and at times still is 1-2 time a year, great leader, was great offensively and defensively in his prime, and amazing work ethic even today. 

Don’t need to say anything about Zetterberg.

Putting veterans all at the same level doesn’t make sense. And just because they are veterans doesn’t mean you have to keep them on the team. Keep the right ones on there.  Move on from the others. 

 

Never put all vets at the same level either in terms of skill or otherwise. Different vets for different roles. Not every vet is a mentor. Never said otherwise. In regards to someone like Helm, if you're KH and you're throwing a guy into the deep end to drown, do u throw in Rass or Helm? Really? A guy has to have good hands to  mentor? Not every vet has to be a Z to be useful to a rebuild. Guys like Daley and Nielsen are a benefit and serve a purpose. You can fill up the roster with a bunch of inexperienced kids if you want,  I prefer a balance. I prefer to sacrifice older, tougher animals to the hockey gods. Not the tender, juicy ones. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I agree. We don't need as many veterans as we have. But a team coming off a long playoff streak is going to have a lot of them. When we look ahead to the next 1-3 years, we see a lot of them coming off the books as the kids that were drafted are becoming NHL ready. We're seeing exactly what a rebuild looks like. This team has been so good for so long, anyone under the age of 35 wouldn't know. Trading away a guy here or there (Sheahan, Tatar) to acquire picks and make room is fine, but when we're talking about dumping every player over the age of 30, or trading away 5 or 6 guys in one or two seasons...well that's just silly.

To be fair, I don't think anyone is suggesting to do this, aside from maybe Jonas... Veterans are important, especially to a rebuilding team, but a rebuilding team should not be close to the oldest team in the league either... Like Dabura mentioned, we don't need all of Nielsen, Vanek, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall, Ericsson, Green, Daley, DeKeyser, Jensen, Howard, Bernier, etc. to mentor a handful of kids... Shed half of those guys and we'd be on the right track in my opinion. I'd like to see us go into next season minus Vanek, Nyquist, one of Helm or Glendening, Kronwall, one of Ericsson or Daley and maybe Jensen and Howard. Get rid of the other veterans over the next couple seasons, and by that time the now kids will be the veteran leaders, leading the new kids.

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Never put all vets at the same level either in terms of skill or otherwise. Different vets for different roles. Not every vet is a mentor. Never said otherwise. In regards to someone like Helm, if you're KH and you're throwing a guy into the deep end to drown, do u throw in Rass or Helm? Really? A guy has to have good hands to  mentor? Not every vet has to be a Z to be useful to a rebuild. Guys like Daley and Nielsen are a benefit and serve a purpose. You can fill up the roster with a bunch of inexperienced kids if you want,  I prefer a balance. I prefer to sacrifice older, tougher animals to the hockey gods. Not the tender, juicy ones. 

This was your quote in the other thread when you were raving about Daley:

"Because he is arguably the best overall D on the team, on a team with crappy D. Assuming there are 1 maybe 2 rookies on the blue line this season, why put them in a worse situation? Plus Daley is a solid 2 way dman on a good contract with a Stanley Cup pedigree. Exactly the kind of guy I want playing with the kids."

To me this insinuates that you must think highly of him. He happened to win Stanley cup with Sidney Crosby. Maybe it made sense to have him when he was first signed and there was still some hope of being a playoff team again; not to mention Kronwall was projected to LTIR around the time he was signed. But we're not a playoff team and we're not even close. It no longer makes sense to keep him around esp with Green resigned and Kronwall still outproducing him. Daley should be traded and so should either one of Ericsson or Dekeyser.  For the record if Green wasn't resigned I would have no prob with Daley sitting on the roster. Just having 4 ******* defensive veterans on the roster makes absolutely no sense right now. 

And you're saying Daley and Nielsen are a benefit. What benefit does Daley bring that Kronwall and Green don't already do? I'd honestly like specific examples because I gave you specific examples. (Kronwall's open ice hitting, his ability to persevere and still outproduce some defenseman, he's an assistant captain etc etc). FYI Kronwall ended up outproducing Daley. So did Green. Green signing makes Daley obsolete. Maybe it wouldn't have if we were a contender and a veteran's playoff experience can make or break your team under moments of pressure. But having 5 veterans on defense (Green, Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, Dekeyser) does absolutely no good for young players actually getting on ice for the NHL and experiencing a simple NHL season game.. Daley is best served playing for a contending team. I presume he will most likely get sent off during the trade deadline and may have another shot at the cup. Green was almost sent off if it wasn't for his injury.

And between Rass and Helm; at this point it's a no brainier. If Rass is good enough to play in the NHL, I pick Rass. If this was 2008; I pick Helm. What does Helm being in the deep end in 2018 do anything for us? Win us a Stanley Cup? No. Helm is about as replaceable as any 3rd/4th liner in the league. In fact Helm would be the perfect trade chip. He's a veteran that actually still has some value since he's not super old. Anways; case and point in regards to the Rass/Helm situation is Tyler Bertuzzi. Had Blashill continued to play Abdelkader with Zetterberg would Bertuzzi have evolved into the player he was last year? Likely not. Bertuzzi played on a more important line than Abdelkader did, and similarly I'd give Rass the same opportunity over Helm if it came down to it. I actually think this is what will most likely end up happening at some point. We have seen direct examples of young players being placed in roles over veterans and this not only benefiting them but also the team itself.  

The only veteran on the list I gave that actually makes a strong case is Nielsen. He's a good two way player and he can play a top 6 role which is inherently more valuable than a bottom 6 player.   Kronwall is a player you keep. Zetterberg if he was playing. Abdelkader over Helm. 

29 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

To be fair, I don't think anyone is suggesting to do this, aside from maybe Jonas... Veterans are important, especially to a rebuilding team, but a rebuilding team should not be close to the oldest team in the league either... Like Dabura mentioned, we don't need all of Nielsen, Vanek, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall, Ericsson, Green, Daley, DeKeyser, Jensen, Howard, Bernier, etc. to mentor a handful of kids... Shed half of those guys and we'd be on the right track in my opinion. I'd like to see us go into next season minus Vanek, Nyquist, one of Helm or Glendening, Kronwall, one of Ericsson or Daley and maybe Jensen and Howard. Get rid of the other veterans over the next couple seasons, and by that time the now kids will be the veteran leaders, leading the new kids.

100% 

Keep the most valuable veterans around, rid the ones that don't add much more. At some point you're just over saturating the team with vets. 

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by kickazz

[AtlantaHotWings 974]

23 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

The original version was the first movie that ever made me cry. 

Never put all vets at the same level either in terms of skill or otherwise. Different vets for different roles. Not every vet is a mentor. Never said otherwise. In regards to someone like Helm, if you're KH and you're throwing a guy into the deep end to drown, do u throw in Rass or Helm? Really? A guy has to have good hands to  mentor? Not every vet has to be a Z to be useful to a rebuild. Guys like Daley and Nielsen are a benefit and serve a purpose. You can fill up the roster with a bunch of inexperienced kids if you want,  I prefer a balance. I prefer to sacrifice older, tougher animals to the hockey gods. Not the tender, juicy ones. 

OMG just talking about old Yeller makes my eyes water.....

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 9/5/2018 at 10:49 AM, Dabura said:

"Wine no longer makes my heart glad; a little of it makes me sad, much makes me melancholy. My soul is faint and impotent; in vain I prick the spur of pleasure into its flank, its strength is gone, it rises no more to the royal leap. I have lost my illusions. Vainly I seek to plunge myself into the boundless sea of joy; it cannot sustain me, or rather, I cannot sustain myself. Once pleasure had but to beckon me, and I mounted, light of foot, sound, and unafraid. When I rode slowly through the woods, it was as if I flew; now when the horse is covered with lather and ready to drop, it seems to me that I do not move. I am solitary as always; forsaken, not by men, which could not hurt me, but by the happy fairies of joy, who used to encircle me in countless multitudes, who met acquaintances everywhere, everywhere showed me an opportunity for pleasure. As an intoxicated man gathers a wild crowd of youths about him, so they flocked about me, the fairies of joy, and I greeted them with a smile. My soul has lost its potentiality. If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard (as "A"), Either/Or

tl;dr Kids = Possibility, hope, allure of the unknown. Veterans = Zzzzz.

You do need veterans. But do you need so many veterans? I think that's the point of contention for a lot of people. There's a difference between "some veteran leaders" and "4,000 veterans, mediocrity as far as the eye can see, oldest team in the league." Abdelkader, Daley, DeKeyser, Ericsson, Helm, Glendening, Green, Jensen, Kronwall, Nielsen, Nyquist, Vanek, Zetterberg. So much old. Soooo much old.

But, I mean, it is what it is. The mandate was "Keep The Streak Alive," our prospect pool has been unremarkable for a long time, and so we leaned on veterans. And now we're slowly getting younger, because The Streak is dead and buried and the overall quality of our prospect pool is improving. So it's all good.

Up doot for kierkegaard. Replace any mention of "the void" with "Nielsen's contract" and youll understand what he meant. 

[rwing 29]

On 9/5/2018 at 12:35 PM, kickazz said:

Bruh he’s been here for a while.

He’s the guy that’s got a billion in his 401k

Now now let’s not exaggerate. It’s only a few million.

I have no evidence on my opinions of Blashill other than my experience with clueless bosses and he sounds like all of them morphed into a hockey coach. I hope he is not detrimental to the kids, but heck, most of them can’t get a spot on this bench anyway. FYI I find it depressing so few people are on here. It used to be a very crowded place. I suppose this marks most of you as true fans. I may complain, but I can’t let go. Even the Lions...

[TheXym 2,606]

Population has gone down with the downturn in on-ice excellence, but things should pick up once the season starts.

[Dabura 12,206]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

The gestapo mods are all gone now, and now the just ones are the only ones.  Even the plastics have chilled out.  I think the board has matured. 

Eat an ass, dingus.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Eat an ass, dingus.

If you respond he wins. Don't let the dumbs win. 

[Dabura 12,206]

Just now, Euro_Twins said:

If you respond he wins. Don't let the dumbs win. 

Twas joking.

"This place has matured."
"[Immature reply]"

[Dabura 12,206]

Just now, Jonas Mahonas said:

I really wasn't trying to upset anyone.  I was more or less complementing masc and jedi for being good mods.  Sorry if u felt offended.

I wasn't offended. I was joking.

See, this is why mature forums are no fun. You've all become a bunch of squares, man.

[Dabura 12,206]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Cool!  We don't battle too much on here, so I don't get your sarcasm as easily.

s'all good

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Cool!  We don't battle too much on here, so I don't get your sarcasm as easily.

Stop trying to act like a grown up. It's really weird. Did you suffer a head contusion?