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hankzet40

Mrazek traded to Philly for Conditional 3rd and 4th Picks

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Flyers got their first taste of Red Wings goaltending in today's game, up 5-1 with 3 minutes left and Mrazek gives up a couple in the dying minutes. Had they not got those insurance goals in the 3rd it could have gotten ugly quick. 

:lol: 

At least the Flyers have the offense there to make up for the late game bad goaltending. 

Two wins from Mrazek though, well on his way fattening our draft pick. 

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On 2/23/2018 at 2:49 PM, chaps80 said:

Source for #2:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bob-Duff/Mrazeks-stock-plummets/216/85847

-Beyond his dismal numbers, the Wings also weren’t pleased when Mrazek forced their hand and they were required to file for arbitration last summer. There were also some issues involving Mrazek’s attitude, and it was thought last season’s switch of goalie coaches from Jim Bedard to Jeff Salajko, Mrazek’s goalie coach in AHL Grand Rapids, might help the situation, but that didn’t appear to be the case. He was also said to be very unhappy with the team for not trading Howard last summer.-

Really just sounds like conjecture. And isn't hockeybuzz.com the website with the with the Ekland rumors that no one trusts? Seems unlikely he'd really expect that.

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57 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Really just sounds like conjecture. And isn't hockeybuzz.com the website with the with the Ekland rumors that no one trusts? Seems unlikely he'd really expect that.

There were other sites with the same content. I just chose that one. HSJ or Khan reported he told the team  that in "less than tactful terms"

Hmmm, looks like Howard was offered to NYI and Philly but Holland wanted too much. Surprise. At least Holland tried, somewhat, I guess. 

-The Red Wings tried to move goaltender Jimmy Howard to the New York Islanders earlier in the week, but their asking price of a high pick wasn't being met.

Since then, Jaroslav Halak made 50 saves Thursday in a 3-0 victory vs. the New York Rangers and Thomas Greiss stopped 45 shots in a 3-0 win at Carolina the next night.

That could curtail talks with the Islanders.

The Red Wings offered Howard or Petr Mrazek to Philadelphia after Flyers goalie Brian Elliott was injured last week (he had core muscle surgery and is expected to be out 5-6 weeks). The Flyers said they're not interested in either. They appear content with Michal Neuvirth, who has gone 3-0-1 since Elliott's injury.-

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2018/02/tampa_bay_best_fit_for_red_win.html

Edited by chaps80

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1 hour ago, MabusIncarnate said:

Flyers got their first taste of Red Wings goaltending in today's game, up 5-1 with 3 minutes left and Mrazek gives up a couple in the dying minutes. Had they not got those insurance goals in the 3rd it could have gotten ugly quick. 

:lol: 

At least the Flyers have the offense there to make up for the late game bad goaltending. 

Two wins from Mrazek though, well on his way fattening our draft pick. 

One of those he should have had, but a win is win. That's what he was brought to Philly to do, give them a chance to win. He's gotten 1 or 2 points in 9 of his 11 games since his shutout against Chicago Jan. 14. 7 wins, 4 losses, 2 in OT. 2 shutouts. Not too shabby.

The fourth increasing to a third round pick is one thing I think most of us figure is going to happen.

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4 hours ago, kickazz said:

@chaps80 still drooling over Mrazek? It’s over bro. He doesn’t care about you and he’s not your Red Wing anymore.

 

It is a stupid thing. It’s also immature. 

Were having a discussion. Isn't that what this place is for. If you don't want to read stuff in the Mrazek trade thread, then just don't click on it. Pretty simple. You got your precious Jimmy still, what do you care what i think?

I can't still be a fan of his in Philly, and hope he succeeds? The comment about him caring about me is pretty dumb. 

Edited by chaps80

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11 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Were having a discussion. Isn't that what this place is for. If you don't want to read stuff in the Mrazek trade thread, then just don't click on it. Pretty simple. You got your precious Jimmy still, what do you care what i think?

I can't still be a fan of his in Philly, and hope he succeeds? The comment about him caring about me is pretty dumb. 

First bold: Because I care about you. 

All the non-bolded stuff: Don't get so mad over Mrazek dude. He's gone. This is like a really hard break up for you I feel like. 

As far as Jimmy. f*** em. Trade him tomorrow and get all the picks we can. 

Edited by kickazz

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5 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

I just hope we ship out Jimmy, too....just for all this nonsense to end.

.

.

.

And because I would like to have a Vezina caliber goalie in net. Or at least a goalie with the potential for that.

It could happen, but probably not until the offseason when he's got one year left. If NYI doesn't re-sign Halak, maybe a deal gets done then. Least Holland is open to it. That's progress.

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3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

First bold: Because I care about you. 

All the non-bolded stuff: Don't get so mad over Mrazek dude. He's gone. This is like a really hard break up for you I feel like. 

As far as Jimmy. f*** em. 

I'm not actually angry about it. Disappointed at management for how it went down, yes. Although i think it was foolish, I know the trade is done. Doesn't mean there can't be discussion about it. Threads from 2010 or whatever get dragged up on here all the time.

You were one of the guys cheering for Jimmy all year. You don't want him around anymore all of a sudden? 

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14 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I'm not actually angry about it. Disappointed at management for how it went down, yes. Although i think it was foolish, I know the trade is done. Doesn't mean there can't be discussion about it. Threads from 2010 or whatever get dragged up on here all the time.

You were one of the guys cheering for Jimmy all year. You don't want him around anymore all of a sudden? 

You can cheer for the guy all you want, that's what fans do, but it makes no sense to keep him here if we can get value in return. Let's say optimistically this team turns a few things around in 3 seasons, how old is Howard? He's going to be an irrelevant piece because he's going to be aged close to the end of his career by then. 

What we had were two goalies making starting goaltending money. One had to go at minimum, and now with Mrazek gone, that situation is somewhat settled. I'd rather put the money Howard is being paid into getting a younger goaltender to develop.

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17 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I'm not actually angry about it. Disappointed at management for how it went down, yes. Although i think it was foolish, I know the trade is done. Doesn't mean there can't be discussion about it. Threads from 2010 or whatever get dragged up on here all the time.

You were one of the guys cheering for Jimmy all year. You don't want him around anymore all of a sudden? 

I liked Jimmy's performance better than Mrazek's in the last 1.5 years or so. Felt like he was the better overall goalie. But I have no attachments to Jimmy Howard. If he's traded for a future draft pick then by all means do it. 

The only attachment I've created with the team are guys like Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Henrik Zetterberg and to a lesser extent Pavel Datsyuk (he kind of bailed on us so I'm not a fan of that aspect). And it's not because they're amazing hockey players, it's because I appreciate the joy they brought for my community. (I'm a Michigander). They were role models.  

Edited by kickazz

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

There were other sites with the same content. I just chose that one. HSJ or Khan reported he told the team  that in "less than tactful terms"

Hmmm, looks like Howard was offered to NYI and Philly but Holland wanted too much. Surprise. At least Holland tried, somewhat, I guess. 

-The Red Wings tried to move goaltender Jimmy Howard to the New York Islanders earlier in the week, but their asking price of a high pick wasn't being met.

Since then, Jaroslav Halak made 50 saves Thursday in a 3-0 victory vs. the New York Rangers and Thomas Greiss stopped 45 shots in a 3-0 win at Carolina the next night.

That could curtail talks with the Islanders.

The Red Wings offered Howard or Petr Mrazek to Philadelphia after Flyers goalie Brian Elliott was injured last week (he had core muscle surgery and is expected to be out 5-6 weeks). The Flyers said they're not interested in either. They appear content with Michal Neuvirth, who has gone 3-0-1 since Elliott's injury.-

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2018/02/tampa_bay_best_fit_for_red_win.html

"Mrazek was not happy the Red Wings were unable to trade Howard in the off-season and let the club know in less-than-tactful terms."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/06/red_wings_left_petr_mrazek_unp.html (I trust the better source)

Okay, didn't see that article. That does make Mrazek look like a bit of a diva. Especially since they were actually trying to trade Howard and were just unsuccessful. 

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6 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I liked Jimmy's performance better than Mrazek's in the last 1.5 years or so. Felt like he was the better overall goalie. But I have no attachments to Jimmy Howard. If he's traded for a future draft pick then by all means do it. 

The only attachment I've created with the team are guys like Steve Yzerman, Sergei Fedorov, Henrik Zetterberg and to a lesser extent Pavel Datsyuk (he kind of bailed on us so I'm not a fan of that aspect). And it's not because they're amazing hockey players, it's because I appreciate the joy they brought for my community. (I'm a Michigander). They were role models.  

I can respect that. Some seem to think he's vital to this team's success though, including Holland. He's had a lot of chances, help, coddling, and benefit of the doubt in his career. Sure, he held it down when the team was good, but once the team dropped, he dropped. Been off and on since. Elliott is Howard 2.0. Exact same type of goalie. He'll hold it down for ya, but he won't take you where you need to go.

As a goalie myself growing up, I tend to pay a lot more attention to that aspect of the game. One of my faves was Vanbiesbrouck, and he wasn't one of the best, or ever a Red Wing. Osgood, Vernon, Hasek..all time faves because of what they accomplished in Detroit. We all have favourite players for different reasons. Yzerman and Zetterberg are obv faves as well, but guys like Probert and McCarty too. Datsyuk bailing changed my opinion of him too. It's one season and the team is on hook for the money, just play it out, retire looking good.

20 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

"Mrazek was not happy the Red Wings were unable to trade Howard in the off-season and let the club know in less-than-tactful terms."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/06/red_wings_left_petr_mrazek_unp.html (I trust the better source)

Okay, didn't see that article. That does make Mrazek look like a bit of a diva. Especially since they were actually trying to trade Howard and were just unsuccessful. 

I don't believe Holland was as aggressive as he could have been to move Howard. He wouldn't retain any salary in the deal, acting like he had some value at the time. Just like the NYI/Philly thing. He still thinks Howard is worth a high draft pick and that's why teams will balk at him.

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Goalies have never been known for the most sensible ways of thinking. Certain rituals (some quite bizarre) and  certain conditions can mean the difference between success and failure. I don't see it as him being a diva or an *******, it's just what makes him comfortable. If getting Howard out of town may have accomplished that, then why not?

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8 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Goalies have never been known for the most sensible ways of thinking. Certain rituals (some quite bizarre) and  certain conditions can mean the difference between success and failure. I don't see it as him being a diva or an *******, it's just what makes him comfortable. If getting Howard out of town may have accomplished that, then why not?

Sure, for a Lundquist or a Quick, but Mrazek hadn't established himself as the franchise goalie without doubt.

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2 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Sure, for a Lundquist or a Quick, but Mrazek hadn't established himself as the franchise goalie without doubt.

No, but they wanted him to be, at least at first. And he was pretty damn good. Oh well, just another missed opportunity. I hope they take better care of Larsson and Petruzelli's development.

Coreau should also be given as many starts as possible for the rest of the season. Let him get some good time in the net and see where he's at, if he's even a viable option going forward. They know what they have with Howard, and the season is a wash.

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9 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Howard being better than Mrazek seems to be a theme on this board but I just don't see it. Howard is horrid and is the goalie that should have been given away.

The term "better" is somewhat subjective, I prefer to look at actual stats and numbers:

https://www.nhl.com/player/jimmy-howard-8470657

Season GP GS W L T OT SA GA GAA Sv% SO MIN
2017-2018 44 42 16 19 0 7 1,274 115 2.84 .910 0 2,430
NHL Career 445 429 215 143 -- 61 12,291 1,046 2.47 .915 23 25,392

https://www.nhl.com/player/petr-mrazek-8475852

Season GP GS W L T OT SA GA GAA Sv% SO MIN
2017-2018 24 20 10 7 0 3 678 61 2.81 .910 3 1,303
NHL Career 168 147 74 58 -- 20 4,585 401 2.59 .913 13 9,274

Also, Howard's win percentage is 48% vs. 44% for Mrazek.

So what I see is that Howard is the "better" goalie. Holland didn't trade the "better" goalie.

 

 

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6 hours ago, chaps80 said:

It's not a stupid thing. Some goalies don't like their predecessor around when they've won his starting job. It's a distraction. Some don't care, some do. if your committed to that guy, you do whatever it takes to fix that situation so he can move on. He was always the top guy everywhere he played, and wanted that in Detroit. Some forget, goalies are creatures of some VERY weird habits that can throw their game off if not completed or addressed. Holland could have ate salary and moved Howard out, but wouldnt budge on it. Hextall couldnt start a game without touching each face off dot in his zone and then at center ice. Even got into a fight over it when one team in the playoffs tried to block the center dot so he couldnt touch it. Habits and confidence you are THE top guy. Can be absolutely critical to his success.

 

Its sounds like a weak excuse to me. If we are going to blame Mrazek's failure on how he was treated and Holland not trading Howard, then how do we explain Osgood's success?

He was the Wings future goalie at the beginning of his career, and yet the Wings still went out and traded for Mike Vernon. Did he throw a temper tantrum? No. He learned from the veteran and grew as a goalie until he was finally given the starting job for good. All despite the fact that they still kept Vernon around afterwards even going with him in the playoffs instead of Ozzie. And even then he didn't cry about it, he toughed it out until Vernon was finally traded after the Cup victory. His perseverance finally paid off in 98 when he won the cup as a starter.

Then 3 years later, he was left exposed in the waiver draft after the Wings chose to bring in Hasek to replace him. Was he bitter about it even then? No. He re-signed with the team again in 2005 and 2006 and led them to another Stanley Cup in 2008.

That's the mental fortitude that Mrazek clearly doesn't have, and I don't see him having any lasting success in this league as long as he is that mentally frail. He should have seen Howard as an asset, a veteran goalie with tons of playoff experience that he could learn from and become a better goalie. Instead, he felt threatened and wanted to dictate roster moves in order to satisfy his own fragile ego.

So, we can try to blame Holland all we want, but in the end, Mrazek was his own worst enemy. He lost the starting job to Howard, who himself lost the starting job, but didn't give up and had the mental strength to fight and win the job back. Mrazek needs to own up to his own mistakes instead of blaming everyone else for his failure, and so do the rest of us.

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33 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Its sounds like a weak excuse to me. If we are going to blame Mrazek's failure on how he was treated and Holland not trading Howard, then how do we explain Osgood's success?

He was the Wings future goalie at the beginning of his career, and yet the Wings still went out and traded for Mike Vernon. Did he throw a temper tantrum? No. He learned from the veteran and grew as a goalie until he was finally given the starting job for good. All despite the fact that they still kept Vernon around afterwards even going with him in the playoffs instead of Ozzie. And even then he didn't cry about it, he toughed it out until Vernon was finally traded after the Cup victory. His perseverance finally paid off in 98 when he won the cup as a starter.

Then 3 years later, he was left exposed in the waiver draft after the Wings chose to bring in Hasek to replace him. Was he bitter about it even then? No. He re-signed with the team again in 2005 and 2006 and led them to another Stanley Cup in 2008.

That's the mental fortitude that Mrazek clearly doesn't have, and I don't see him having any lasting success in this league as long as he is that mentally frail. He should have seen Howard as an asset, a veteran goalie with tons of playoff experience that he could learn from and become a better goalie. Instead, he felt threatened and wanted to dictate roster moves in order to satisfy his own fragile ego.

So, we can try to blame Holland all we want, but in the end, Mrazek was his own worst enemy. He lost the starting job to Howard, who himself lost the starting job, but didn't give up and had the mental strength to fight and win the job back. Mrazek needs to own up to his own mistakes instead of blaming everyone else for his failure, and so do the rest of us.

Osgood didn't come storming into the league, get anointed with the starting role quickly and then when he had issues, he was shipped out. He was brought along slowly, because he had to be. Simply not ready. He only took over the job around late 1994 when Essensa failed after the Chevy trade, then gave up that Game 7 winning goal to SJ. Literally gave it right to Baker with a complete open net to shoot at. So they knew he still needed to learn and got Vernon to help him, which he did. They traded Vernon after he just backstopped them to a Cup and won the Smythe. Figured Osgood was ready, which he was. They hung onto him for years to develop him. Patience.

Replacing him with Hasek, I think any goalie who wasn't Brodeur or Roy would have accepted that, especially after losing to LA in six games in the first round. He held no animosity and re-signed because he was replaced with one of the top 3 guys in the NHL with 6 vezinas, 2 harts, and an Eastern Conference title (All with Buffalo!) on his resume. I'd bow out too. He also didn't have many other options at that time, and simply liked Detroit.

Mrazek made mistakes of course, but he was given up on very quickly. He had started to win the job back. Probably could have earlier in the season if he was given a good shot at that time.

Too short of a time frame is my main issue with the trade. Holland had zero patience with him. Not at all like the Osgood saga.

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3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

The term "better" is somewhat subjective, I prefer to look at actual stats and numbers:

https://www.nhl.com/player/jimmy-howard-8470657

Season GP GS W L T OT SA GA GAA Sv% SO MIN
2017-2018 44 42 16 19 0 7 1,274 115 2.84 .910 0 2,430
NHL Career 445 429 215 143 -- 61 12,291 1,046 2.47 .915 23 25,392

https://www.nhl.com/player/petr-mrazek-8475852

Season GP GS W L T OT SA GA GAA Sv% SO MIN
2017-2018 24 20 10 7 0 3 678 61 2.81 .910 3 1,303
NHL Career 168 147 74 58 -- 20 4,585 401 2.59 .913 13 9,274

Also, Howard's win percentage is 48% vs. 44% for Mrazek.

So what I see is that Howard is the "better" goalie. Holland didn't trade the "better" goalie.

 

 

Time will tell I guess, hope Howard is dealt but very slim chance now.

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On 2/23/2018 at 11:49 AM, chaps80 said:

Source for #2:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bob-Duff/Mrazeks-stock-plummets/216/85847

-Beyond his dismal numbers, the Wings also weren’t pleased when Mrazek forced their hand and they were required to file for arbitration last summer. There were also some issues involving Mrazek’s attitude, and it was thought last season’s switch of goalie coaches from Jim Bedard to Jeff Salajko, Mrazek’s goalie coach in AHL Grand Rapids, might help the situation, but that didn’t appear to be the case. He was also said to be very unhappy with the team for not trading Howard last summer.-

Then we didn't he just outplay Howard? That was all he needed to do. If he's so much better, why couldn't he?

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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On 2/24/2018 at 4:56 PM, MabusIncarnate said:

Flyers got their first taste of Red Wings goaltending in today's game, up 5-1 with 3 minutes left and Mrazek gives up a couple in the dying minutes. Had they not got those insurance goals in the 3rd it could have gotten ugly quick. 

:lol: 

At least the Flyers have the offense there to make up for the late game bad goaltending. 

Two wins from Mrazek though, well on his way fattening our draft pick. 

This plus Mrazek let in a 4th that was luckily offsides and they got a lucky goal.

I'm not counting on that 3rd round pick.

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