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Dabura

2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

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3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree, if we can retain 50% and trade Daley, that's obviously the better route. I'm just saying that if a team isn't willing to trade for him, which is a real possibility (he's old and he sucks), I'd buy him out. A buyout on Daley doesn't really effect the cap much at all over the next two seasons...

2019-20 - $1,699,999

2020-21 - $733,333

... and frees up a roster spot this season. Whether Daley is traded or bought out, I don't care. I just think he needs to go...

Why can't we send Daley and or Erricson to Grand Rapids? If they clear great we'd get 950k back in cap and then they are off the roster.

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16 minutes ago, mackel said:

Why can't we send Daley and or Erricson to Grand Rapids? If they clear great we'd get 950k back in cap and then they are off the roster.

They technically could, but I think a buyout would be more likely if there's no trade market.

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7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Is it more likely that we see a buyout on one of Daley or Ericsson?

Would rather move them than buy them out, whether it’s during the season or at the deadline. If they aren’t moved, I think they’ll both be injured at given points during the season and we should just ride their contracts out. I do not think all four of Green, Daley, Ericsson, and Kronwall should be on the backend next year.

Is it more likely that we move on from Kronwall and Vanek?

I think it likely we move on from Vanek. I think it likely that Yzerman will take a veteran forward with a bad contract (plus prospect/pick) from a team that needs cap flexibility (Say... Ryan Callahan from Tampa?) 

Is it possible we see an actual player for player "hockey trade"?

There are very few pieces of value that, at this point, I’m eager to trade.  If he can trade Abdelkader or Helm, I hope he does so.

Is it more likely that we see any or all of Cholowski, Rasmussen, Veleno or Zadina up to start the season? 

Short answer. No. ...I think some of these guys still need time in the AHL. If they shine in camp, I would not be surprised if they get a shot, but I don’t think Yzerman is MORE LIKELY to give these guys a shot than Holland would have. 

Going to be interesting to see how things play out...

Indeed. I do have tempered expectations because Steve is not working with the same roster pieces, prospects, etc here as what he had in Tampa. ...but he did make some tough decisions on players in Tampa that had Holland been Steve’s  shoes, I’m not sure Ken would have made those same difficult decisions. 

 

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Anyone have a quick run down on Yzerman history in TBL? In terms of significant draft picks, trading, UFA and RFA signings. Along with any unfavorable moves or picks he has made?

Maybe should of made another topic for something like that. 

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35 minutes ago, xault said:

Anyone have a quick run down on Yzerman history in TBL? In terms of significant draft picks, trading, UFA and RFA signings. Along with any unfavorable moves or picks he has made?

Maybe should of made another topic for something like that. 

Kucherov and Point we're drafted during his tenure.  He also acquired Ryan McDonanugh at last year's deadline.

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On 4/19/2019 at 10:47 PM, xault said:

Anyone have a quick run down on Yzerman history in TBL? In terms of significant draft picks, trading, UFA and RFA signings. Along with any unfavorable moves or picks he has made?

Maybe should of made another topic for something like that. 

He got a 1st rounder for KFQ.

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Fedorov spends some time during the summers in Michigan where his mother lives.

Yzerplan: Acquire Fedorov.

Trade for Trouba or sign Karlsson

Sign Duchene.

Promote AA to the throne. 

Edited by kickazz

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5 hours ago, kickazz said:

Trade for Trouba or sign Karlsson

Sign Duchene.

I'm all for trading for a defenseman like Trouba, but I hope Yzerman stays far away from any free agents. He's said that he's not looking for a quick fix in free agency, so I hope that's the case. 

45 minutes ago, Number19 said:

How about buyout Neilson and sign Datsyuk to a one year deal as our third line center. :cool:

I'd be all for that swap, but no way I want Nielsen on the cap for another 6 seasons...

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19 hours ago, kickazz said:

Fedorov spends some time during the summers in Michigan where his mother lives.

Yzerplan: Acquire Fedorov.

Trade for Trouba or sign Karlsson

Sign Duchene.

Promote AA to the throne. 

Rebuild letsgowings.com

Fixed

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On 4/19/2019 at 10:47 PM, xault said:

Anyone have a quick run down on Yzerman history in TBL? In terms of significant draft picks, trading, UFA and RFA signings. Along with any unfavorable moves or picks he has made?

Maybe should of made another topic for something like that. 

Kucherov -2nd round (58)

Vasilevskiy - 1st round (19)

Braden point- 3rd round (79)

Tyler Johnson - undrafted

That's just off top of my head

 

He also acquired Ben bishop before trading him a few years later to Dallas 

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On 4/20/2019 at 4:47 AM, xault said:

Anyone have a quick run down on Yzerman history in TBL? In terms of significant draft picks, trading, UFA and RFA signings. Along with any unfavorable moves or picks he has made?

Maybe should of made another topic for something like that. 

 

If you are subscribed to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/934612/2019/04/19/how-steve-yzermans-most-defining-moves-as-a-gm-can-be-applied-to-the-red-wings-rebuild/ If not: What are you waiting for ? ;)

To summarize the article: He basically turned Steve Downie into Andrei Vasilevskiy ( the KFQ-Trade, Vasilevskiy was our first rounder).

Quote

Taking a goalie in the first round is a bit of a taboo, but armed with an additional first-round pick, Yzerman pulled the trigger on Vasilevskiy, the best goalie in that year’s draft.

He dared to trade away a franchise star player in Martin St.Louis and got a hell of a return for it. He did trade up from pick 80 to 79 to take Brayden Point, so he isn't shying away from taking risks if he is convinced that it will pay out. He build an exceptional competent staff in Tampa. And he did build a team that had one goal above anything else: Winning a Stanley Cup. The example the article states is the discount Stamkos and other stars took to keep the Lightning competitive.

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23 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Have we heard any word on whether or not Green will be ready for camp? He had that virus pop back up and that could really play into Yzerman pursuing a #1 guy via UFA.

Yzerman will not be acquiring any big names via free agency. It would be dumb to do so. Yzerman is not dumb. If Green can't go (I think he will be good after a long summer of rehap), we still have Dekeyser, Daley, Ericsson, *maybe* Kronwall, Hronek, Cholowski, plus others on the farm that could be called up.

I'd much rather re-sign Witkowski or sign another filler for pennies than go after Karlsson, who I assume you're referring to since he's the only top pair defenseman available in free agency...

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I think Yzerman is going to surprise a lot of people. This is no longer business as usual. Building a Cup contender doesn't mean sit on your hands. Yzerman will hit the ground running. I am 100% confident he will at tender offers to some BIG UFA's when the period starts. The old way is gone. If Yzerman acquires any UFA's, it will not be the Witkowski, Del Zotto, Filppula type. He is an aggressive GM, he is not going to waste UFA money on fillers. If he signs UFA's they will be high skilled difference makers. Again, this is no longer a Ken Holland philosophy, I don't know why you guys think he is all of a sudden going to change his style he's had the past 8 years in to Ken Holland's stale crap.  He didn't build Tampa by going about business like Ken Holland. Ken Holland is out as GM, Yzerman is not Ken Holland's clone, I expect Yzerman to run this team like he ran Tampa.  Again, it's retarded to think that he is going to just come here and do the same old Ken Holland crap. Why hire him then?

Why would it be dumb to acquire (if able to) Karlsson and Panarin? Do they not turn this franchise in to a playoff team? All of those game we loat in OT or by 1 goal in regulation could be turned into 1 goal wins with these 2 players alone. Those would be two huge pieces to add to this team.  If its affordable, I don't see why it wouldn't make sense. It's not only Cup contenders making these signing's, it's teams looking for important cogs that will make their team better. If you have the money, why not inquire?

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15 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I think Yzerman is going to surprise a lot of people. This is no longer business as usual. Building a Cup contender doesn't mean sit on your hands. Yzerman will hit the ground running. I am 100% confident he will at tender offers to some BIG UFA's when the period starts. The old way is gone. If Yzerman acquires any UFA's, it will not be the Witkowski, Del Zotto, Filppula type. He is an aggressive GM, he is not going to waste UFA money on fillers. If he signs UFA's they will be high skilled difference makers. Again, this is no longer a Ken Holland philosophy, I don't know why you guys think he is all of a sudden going to change his style he's had the past 8 years in to Ken Holland's stale crap.  He didn't build Tampa by going about business like Ken Holland. Ken Holland is out as GM, Yzerman is not Ken Holland's clone, I expect Yzerman to run this team like he ran Tampa.  Again, it's retarded to think that he is going to just come here and do the same old Ken Holland crap. Why hire him then?

Why would it be dumb to acquire (if able to) Karlsson and Panarin? Do they not turn this franchise in to a playoff team? All of those game we loat in OT or by 1 goal in regulation could be turned into 1 goal wins with these 2 players alone. Those would be two huge pieces to add to this team.  If its affordable, I don't see why it wouldn't make sense. It's not only Cup contenders making these signing's, it's teams looking for important cogs that will make their team better. If you have the money, why not inquire?

The situation Yzerman was in in Tampa, is vastly different than the situation Holland was in and Yzerman is going into in Detroit. The Lightning were a perennial Cup contender. That team took time to build. There's no doubt in my mind that the Red Wings could be (will be) a perennial Cup contender in a few years as well, but it's not going to happen overnight.

Don't rush it. Continue to draft and develop. Make some trades to improve the team. Don't massively overpay in free agency for two players that are soon to be past their prime. Sure, they'll have some good years, but by the time this team is truly ready to compete, they will both be 30+. With Karlsson, there's the injury concerns. With Panarin, there's the loyalty concerns. I really hope we stay far away from both of these guys...

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51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The situation Yzerman was in in Tampa, is vastly different than the situation Holland was in and Yzerman is going into in Detroit. The Lightning were a perennial Cup contender. That team took time to build. There's no doubt in my mind that the Red Wings could be (will be) a perennial Cup contender in a few years as well, but it's not going to happen overnight.

Don't rush it. Continue to draft and develop. Make some trades to improve the team. Don't massively overpay in free agency for two players that are soon to be past their prime. Sure, they'll have some good years, but by the time this team is truly ready to compete, they will both be 30+. With Karlsson, there's the injury concerns. With Panarin, there's the loyalty concerns. I really hope we stay far away from both of these guys...

Who cares about Panarin’s loyalty issues. Detroit molds players to be better people. Look at Todd Bertuzzi. The guy almost killed someone and we gave him a chance and he now is living in Michigan as a common citizen.   

Panarin is a fantastic player, I hope Yzerman goes after him. 

Him and Larkin on a line together would be deadly and fun to watch. 

Honestly if we signed Karlsson and Panarin this team automatically becomes a playoff contender. Larkin, AA, Mantha and Betuzzi are already high 20, 30 goal scorers. We lack defense that's the issue and Karlsson would fix that. And in 2-3 years Cholo wud be easily a stable number 2. 

Getting into the playoffs to get all the youngsters playoff experience is key. I’d rather them get it now than 3 years from now. Get em the experience and win the cup eventually.

We don’t want to be the Edmonton Oilers were we play the slow game and draft for 7 years but lack playoff experience and continue to suck and never make a legit cup run.

Hell Zet and Dats only became the players they did because they were surrounded be good talent and had a s*** ton of playoff experience right off the bat. Took them 5 years to eventually win the cup in 08 after hard fought battles in 03 against Anaheim, 04 against Calgary, 06 against Edmonton and 07 against the Ducks, but they needed all that to go on to win in 08. 

Give Cholowski a Karlsson, give Larkin a Panarin. Let them thrive and dominate together. 

Edited by kickazz

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The Holland plan seemed to be: Wait out the bad contracts, Fill holes with stop-gap vets, draft and develop. A very conservative long-term approach.

I think the biggest question with Yzerman will be: Is he going to continue waiting on the bad contracts, or will he do something creative to get rid of them sooner?

We're not really going to be able to do much of substance under the cap until those contracts are addressed. After next season most of our young guns will need new contracts again which will throw us against the cap again if nothing is done. Helm should be traded and I'm hoping something can be done about Nielsen.

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yzerman will not be acquiring any big names via free agency.

I wouldn't rule it out, tbh. Holland says he expects us to have $15-20M in cap space this summer. New GM, potentially a ton of cap space...some would say that screams "big moves coming." Not sure I'd agree, but I don't think we can rule out the possibility.

I kinda like the idea of Dzingel on a four- or five-year deal, if that's possible. Our projected top six is lacking, even if Helm and Abdelkader and Glendening are all in the bottom six.

Edited by Dabura

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Too many speculations about how Yzerman is going to run this team. We have zero clue what’s going to happen. Just sit tight and not have set expectations. See how the guy does it.

He may bring us Karlsson, he may draft Cozens and that’s it. Maybe he trades Helm and Nielsen. Maybe he does none of that. We have zero idea and he’s given us zero ideas. He’s made one generic statement saying “I would have built through the draft the last few years like Holland did”. Well duh, who wouldn’t in the salary cap era..

Edited by kickazz

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9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I wouldn't rule it out, tbh. Holland says he expects us to have $15-20M in cap space this summer. New GM, potentially a ton of cap space...some would say that screams "big moves coming." Not sure I'd agree, but I don't think we can rule out the possibility.

I kinda like the idea of Dzingel on a four- or five-year deal, if that's possible. Our projected top six is lacking, even if Helm and Abdelkader and Glendening are all in the bottom six.

Wait. I thought Holland was an idiot for spending all of his cap. Now Yzerman should do it? Hello Red Wings, meet the Maple Leafs.

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