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Member Since 31 May 2011
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#2537371 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 26 September 2014 - 10:16 AM

Just trying to make the point that just because he was -2 doesn't mean he's the worst player ever and since the best player we had in the game also was -2 it probably shouldn't be used as a "omg cleary sux."

I agree he's playing for a job and if he wants one he needs to play well, but a stat line that says -2 doesn't tell me anything about how he personally played.


Didn't you know..."OMG Cleary does suxs"!  For the remainder of the season, whenever possible, Cleary, Quincey, and Kindl will be ragged on and denigrated to the absolute maximum.  Because, ya know, a bottom six forward at the end of his career and tweener defensemen make all the difference in the world to the teams success.

#2537370 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by kipwinger on 26 September 2014 - 10:10 AM

Tough or not is not the issue, point is there was someone to get the job done. McCarty played 17 games and to win a Cup you need 16 wins. The road to the finals is important too. I'm not saying they wouldnt have won without him, everybody knows his game was declining by that time. Still he was there and the team has not won a cup in the Kenny Holland era without him.


They haven't won a Cup in the Holland era without Lidstrom either.  And I don't think he ever had a fight, or led the team in hits either.  The softest of the soft, the skilled of the skilled.  So what?


You could just as easily argue, based on this fact, that we should go MORE toward "skill" because after losing Lids we're not skilled enough.

we need a goon, because our talent takes a beating every night. Yes there will still be injuries and dirty plays, but the Red Wings have never won a Cup without a McCarty in the modern era.


You keep saying this like it means something.  He didn't even play in the 08 finals.  Mike Babcock thought him so irrelevant that he scratched him, and yet here you are making it seem like he's not only important but vital to win.  He's not.  Get over it. 


Edit:  Also, McCarty played exactly 3 regular season games that year too.  So it's not like he was out there night after night protecting Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom. 


He played 17 playoff games as the Wings steamrolled Nashville, Colorado, and Dallas, and then rode the pine once we had to play an actual team. 

#2537357 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by kipwinger on 26 September 2014 - 08:42 AM

I definitely think Red Wings fans place a higher premium on skill than most other fanbases, but do not forget that despite Holland's position on fighting, the Cup winning team's all had a physical presence. Some more than others. For example, the modern era Red Wings have yet to win a Cup without Darren McCarty in the lineup.


True, but I think that inflates his value a little too much in 2008.  That year he played one game in the finals, had 6:00 minutes of icetime, 11 shifts, and no fights.  He didn't do anything that Abdelkader and Helm don't do better.  For all intents and purposes that was a pure skill team with a pure skill win.


However, your point is taken for 97, 98, and 02.  Those were tougher teams than our current bunch, but still near the bottom of the league in all major "tough guy" categories. 


Making comparisons against ones' self is always precarious because it tends to skew all relative contextual information.  By comparing the 97 Wings to the 08 Wings you'd conclude that one was "tough" and one wasn't.  But once you factor in the rest of the league you realize that neither were tough.  In 97 our less tough team absolutely obliterated the tough guys from Philadephia who were supposed to be so much and powerful and scary. 


So while I agree that our older teams were tougher than current ones, they were still by no means "tough" teams by NHL standards.  Also, in neither case are those Wings' team indicative of whether or not "tough" vs. "skill" philosophies are better, they just happened to be better that year. 

#2537292 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by kipwinger on 25 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

Serious question.  I don't read other hockey boards, so I don't know the answer to this question.


Do other forums have as many posters who don't believe fighting and enforcers have a place in the game?  It seems like we have many, and I wonder how much of that has to do with Kenny Holland and the Wings philosophy of finishing last in fighting majors every year for the last 10+ years?  


Seems like the attitude of the team and management has rubbed off to the fanbase.


With that said, I know many Wings fans who can't stand that philosophy and root for the team in spite of it.  


I don't know about other teams, but I suspect that your characterization of Wings fans' attitudes is right...yet incomplete.  People around here buy into Kenny's philosophy partially because they don't have an alternative, and partially because it's been SUPER successful during his tenure.  If he espoused a "no fighting" philosophy and we missed the playoffs every year I imagine fans wouldn't be so quick to go with it.  Likewise, Peter Chiarelli's teams are "pro fighting" and they win, so why argue with it? If they started losing consistently I'd imagine fans would be less enthusiastic about the organizational philosophy.

#2537281 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by kipwinger on 25 September 2014 - 01:39 PM

If McGrattan played for our team, Scuderi would have hit someone like Miller or Cleary instead.


At least I would, in his position.  


And if Pittsburgh had Orr, McGrattan and his soccer hair would run away or get his nose broke.  So what?

#2537267 Datsyuk 2nd degree separated shoulder injury - out approx 4 weeks

Posted by kipwinger on 25 September 2014 - 11:03 AM

Yes, and this is because the league will protect the dirty players. Scrap the instigator rule and leave the policing to the players. If a guy is willing to face the music after running a star then so be it, I agree there's no stopping them, but at least dont protect these clowns. Let there be another Lemieux beatdown. I bet more than a few players would think twice and even change their game. Frankly, it cannot get worse than the current state.



There are "Lemieux" beatdowns all the time.  Not a year goes by that there isn't some big line brawl.  Look up line brawl on youtube and you'll find a TON of them.  And here's the funny part, they usually take place between the same teams.  Buffalo, Boston, Philly, Toronto.  Nobody is using them to keep other teams honest.  They're doing it because they're the types of teams built to do it.  Last year Toronto and Buffalo had a line brawl because John Scott tried to fight Kessel.  And Buffalo acquired John Scott because the year before that Lucic ran over top of Ryan Miller.  This crap just perpetuates itself. 

#2537234 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 24 September 2014 - 07:49 PM

I'll just leave this here. Apparently Smith will be a risk free player this year... According to Smith.




"I have it on good authority that Brendan Smith's game will be risk free this year.  And that he's the best yahtzee player on the team.  Oh, and he makes a mean lasagna.  And he once beat a polar bear in a dance-off.  Oooh, ooh, and he's as handsome as a young Richard Gere" -Brendan Smith

#2537193 9/23 Exhibition GDT : Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 2 (OT)

Posted by kipwinger on 24 September 2014 - 03:15 PM

Nope it was a reflection on the comment above yours that said to look out for Smith this season.


Aha.  I'll say this about Smith.  For two years everybody around here has been talking about how Smith needs to get some PP time.  For his confidence, for his numbers, etc.  Supposedly he's going to get it this year. 


Everybody knows I don't like Smith.  That's no secret.  Thus far in his career he's been an offensive defenseman who neither plays defense nor puts up points. 


I'm willing to cut the guy a lot of slack if he shows he's an offensive defenseman who produces offense; something he hasn't done yet, but might with PP time.  That's his role.  That's why he was drafted.  If he does that, I'll gladly overlook his boneheaded defensive miscues. 


But woe to him if he gets PP time and still doesn't produce.  At which point we should be able to agree that he's trash. 

#2537189 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 24 September 2014 - 02:59 PM

I think the term "doorknob" used above is about right.  I've always got the impression that Smith was the epitome of a dumb jock.  Lots of talent, nothing between the ears.  We've been lucky over the decades that our team has been full of pretty articulate, ambassadors of the game.  So we tend to forget that a lot of athletes are dumb as s***.  Brandon Inge was dumb but athletic.  Matthew Stafford is dumb but athletic.  And sadly, I think Brandon Smythe is dumb but athletic. 

#2537144 9/23 Exhibition GDT : Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 2 (OT)

Posted by kipwinger on 24 September 2014 - 10:33 AM


I was following the play by play for the game and noticed a lot of these:

13:43 Detroit Giveaway by Jakub Kindl in defensive zone



That's true, and I don't want to downplay it.  But it also should be pointed out that Kindl and Dekeyser (or Lashoff and Dekeyser) is nothing close to a top pair.  And yet were forced to play as one against one of the better top six teams in the league.  And we still only lost 2-1 in OT. 


So while we should definitely not make excuses for anyone.  We should put it into context.  Kindl was bad.  But not so bad that it kept us out of the game.  Hell, if Pulkkinen does what he's supposed to and buries that open netter we win the game in regulation.  So there's that.

#2536750 2014 Preseason Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 22 September 2014 - 03:26 PM

I wanted to put this in its own thread but decided to post here instead.  I just wanted to comment on how awesome it is that the organization has fully embraced social media, and particularly the "all-access" philosophy they seem to have developed.  Between the Red Wings and Griffins Youtube channels I've watched behind the scenes videos of last year's playoffs, development camp, the prospect tournament, and now main camp, along with individual profiles of many of the up and coming guys as well as Wings regulars.  In each case the footage was more insightful and better made than the hyper-dramatic, scripted, crap that we were fed on 24/7 last year.  No B.S., all hockey.  Exactly what I want. 


Kudos to the organization for giving fans an absolutely massive amount of media to help get them through the long offseason. 

#2536746 9/22/14 7:00 PM. Preseason GDT - DET 2 @ PIT 1

Posted by kipwinger on 22 September 2014 - 02:44 PM


Add in the fact that he's also a righty, and even though Marchenko is too, he's not coming off a high ankle sprain. 


Agreed.  Marchenko is a righty, but he's not going to be expected to score so the side he shoots from matters a little less.  And while he and Quellet are probably better all around (right now) than Sproul, they got to compete with each other plus Quincey, Dekeyser, Ericsson, and Lashoff for a spot.  Sproul just has to be better than Kindl, or Smith, and he's got all the best attributes of both.  He's as big as Kindl, as fast as Smith, a better shot than both and his only noticeably shortcoming is one that the two of them share as well.  Plus, as you mentioned...he's a righty.


Edit:  Lol.  Just saw this.  Check out Fischer at 2:09..."We bring him to development camp...he puts on some weight...he is a man now". 


#2536604 Training Camp Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 19 September 2014 - 12:22 PM

His statement is that there approach is now different. Of course there isn't any examples - it's a future proclamation.


For the second time, I realize that.  Which is precisely why I'd need for him to prove it, this year, in training camp.  Because it hasn't ever been true before.  Even in the past, when the rule was "tie goes to the veteran", the ostensible rule was that in situations NOT TIED, the best player would play.  But that wasn't the case either.  So for all of posterity, I get it.  Babs says the best player will play.  Prove it. 

#2536585 Training Camp Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 19 September 2014 - 10:45 AM

Isn't that what Babcock is saying though? Up until now he's given the jobs to the veterans, this training camp he's giving it to the best player. This being the first season with this philosophy, he's hardly had a chance to go back on it.


I think we all agree that's what he's saying.  Our point is that "actions speak louder than words".  I'll believe it when I see it.


Additionally, it's a little bit of double speak by Babs anyway.  In years past he's said "tie goes to the veteran".  But there was no tie when they kept Nyquist down a year ago.  He was legitimately BETTER than any number of forwards on our team.  Likewise Jurco is currently BETTER than any number of forwards.  So even if Babs hadn't "changed philosophy", those guys should still have been (or be) in the lineup because they're not tied with guys...they're already better. 

#2536579 Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

Posted by kipwinger on 19 September 2014 - 10:05 AM


This story will be over come october, Babs already said he will not be talking about it by then and just go to the next question. I'm very sure Holland will do the exact same thing.


Which will only lead to more media speculation, since nothing was finalized.  Which was my point.