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Member Since 31 May 2011
Offline Last Active Aug 25 2014 04:19 PM

#2475209 Building a talent pipeline.

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

The other thing I'd be looking for is a guy who's trending upward, but who isn't established yet.  A guy like Neal was for Dallas.  If you're willing to part with a quality piece you can usually get guys like this and hopefully they were scouted well enough that they can really flourish in your system.  Obviously you need to have quality scouts (which we supposedly do) but also you wouldn't need to give up nearly as much as an established guy. 


Following this line of though, one guy I've been interested in is Mikkel Boedker from Phoenix.  He's defensively responsible, SUPER fast, young, and has pretty good size (6ft. 210 lbs.), and plays for a team that's not likely to push for a playoff spot.  He's having a breakout year this year after moderate success in the past.  This is the kind of under the radar move that could pay off huge in the future if the kid continues to develop upward.  Plus, you certainly wouldn't need to give Nyquist and a 1st for him. 


I don't know if this guy's the answer, but it's the kind of move I'd be looking at if I were Holland.  Let everyone else battle it out for E. Kane, Vanek, Moulson, etc. and we make a solid cap savy move that helps now and in the future.

#2475201 Canadian Olympians trust, believe in Babcock

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 04:06 PM


The issue is Holland giving him dusty players to put on the ice with NTC's so the team is handcuffed to them.


That's certainly PART of the issue, and admittedly it's not insignificant.  But injuries have given everyone on this forum the youth movement that they wanted, and you see how Babs uses them.  That shouldn't be ignored or downplayed any more than Holland's dumb a** personnel moves of the last couple years.  Based on his use of them so far, it's pretty obvious that according to Babs the depth chart is something like this:


Top End Guys:

Dats, Z, Kronwall, Franzen, Alfie, Ericsson


"Reliable Vets":

Cleary, Bert, Quincey, Miller, Eaves, Abby, Helm


Responsible Youth:

Nyquist, Glendening, Andersson,


"Irresponsible" Youth:

Tatar, Kindl, Smith


New Wave Youth:

Jurco, Sheahan





What makes anybody think that Babs is just pining for a youth movement.  Cut the dead wood and guys like Glendening, Andersson, and Nyquist get more ice time.  Not the guys who are actually creating momentum for us.

#2475197 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

Nyquist is already 24 and hasn't done anything mind blowing yet(stat wise) you wanna get a 30 goal guy there gonna want a younger player with higher upside Mantha/jurco type prospect


Not necessarily true.  Bobby Ryan was traded for a guy with Nyquist-like NHL numbers, a boom or bust prospect (like Frk for us), and a first.  There are a ton of variables at play in the trade market, but Nyquist and a 1st would definitely be a really good starting point (as I said before) for a quality trade.

#2475195 Building a talent pipeline.

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 03:50 PM

The thing with Nyquist, or Tatar, is that they're small skilled guys.  The Wings have a bunch of guys like that.  When you have a lot of one thing and not a lot of another, you use what you have a lot of to get what you don't.  Small wingers and quality young d-men out, big wingers in.


Agreed 3000%

#2475194 Nucks vs Flames

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 03:49 PM


Don't watch it then, problem solved.


Dude, you always say this and it's getting old.  Because one could easily argue that if you want to watch people get punched so much why don't you go watch boxing or MMA. 


I'm not here to try and convince you that fighting is dumb, or bad, or whatever.  It wouldn't work even if I tried.  But please stop with the "if you don't like it don't watch" argument, because it's not a very good one and is basically the adult equivalent of taking your ball and going home.

#2475192 Building a talent pipeline.

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 03:46 PM

Maybe a better way of doing this is list prospect by class years.



Nyquist, Tatar, and Dekeyser-all here and playing well.



Jurco, Sheahan, and Almquist-first 2 are up playing well, not sure if Almquist has a spot or is trade bait.



Mrasek and Mantha-2 potential great ones!



Frk, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Oullett, Sproul, jensen, Merchanko, and Nedomlel-5 Dman ready, not all will make it. lots of trade bait here.



Paterson, Wheaton, McNulty, McKee,  and Nastasiuk-way to early to really know if any of these guys make it. None have played a pro hockey game yet.



yet to be determined.......


Yeah, but you can't simply say "a guy's up and playing well in the NHL and therefore don't trade him".  If you never traded a guy who was playing well, you'd never get anything of value.  You have to consider the possibility of trading a Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, Sheahan, Jurco (one of them, not multiple) if you want something of value.  Nobody is going to give you a Wheeler, Ladd, Kane, etc. for unproven potential.  You need to include guys that have shown they can play well in the NHL and then sweeten the pot with picks or prospects. 


Which begs the question, "if a guy is playing well in the NHL then why trade him"? Which is the Ken Holland school of thought.  You trade him because the guy you get back fills a need better, or because you're bleeding prospects and don't have room for them all, or the upside on the return is greater than what's going out.  There's a ton of reasons to part with quality talent.

#2475170 Building a talent pipeline.

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 02:38 PM

Genius move by toronto....i wish we had a GM who trades for players like that :(


Well Schenn was Toronto's version of Smith, and while I would gladly move Smith for a guy like JVR imagine how apes*** everyone around here would go...well until they saw him play anyway. 

#2475168 Building a talent pipeline.

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 02:36 PM

Couldnt agree more Kip. Hes one of my favorite players in the league forsure. His potential is absolutely unreal. Hes the kindof player who does something sick every shift. If Toronto were stupid enough to ever let him go (which im doubting) thered be a bidding war over him forsure. Almost, and i mean almost...any team that ads a player of that caliber is a cup contender. Hes a big part of why toronto is doing as well as they are this half of the season.


And to think, Philly traded him for Schenn because they weren't willing to wait out a concussion.  The Flyers have to be one of the poorest run franchises in the league.  The only thing that keeps Holmgren from being named amongst all the other worst GMs in the league has been the amount of money they've spent and the two buyouts that saved them from the cap hell that Bryzgalov and Briere had them in.

#2475139 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 01:35 PM

The point of my saying to trade Nyquist was not to say that he's a bad player, he's not.  But contrary to what most of LGW believes, you can't get a top six winger for Cleary, Kindl, and a 3rd.  You need to give up something valuable.  Nyquist has value, he's good, but not what we really need right now.  The margin of victory for the Red Wings does not rest on Nyquist's defensive upside (I don't see that he's particularly good at it right now) or assist totals.  We need someone with 25-30 goal potential and size...Nyquist and a 1st would be the starting price for a piece like that.

#2475069 Leaders need to be leaders

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 08:28 AM

It's not really surprising that Z had a bad game last night.  He's one of only two offensive threats on our team right now, and we were playing one of the three best defensive teams in hockey.  I imagine it's REALLY hard to play well with David Backes draped all over you for 60 minutes.

#2475065 Lines Thread

Posted by kipwinger on 21 January 2014 - 08:09 AM

I don't like Nyquist in the top six.  He's not producing and I don't think he's ready physically to play against the league's top forwards.  When (if) guys get healthy I'd like to see him dropped down the depth chart, or preferably packaged with our first for a winger with some size for the top six.

#2474963 1/20 GDT: Blues 4 @ Red Wings 1

Posted by kipwinger on 20 January 2014 - 09:34 PM

Sheahan's awesome.  ;) He can do anything!  I love his forecheck.  He forechecks like a Blues player  :lol:


Well I definitely agree with you there.  I really wasn't impressed with his one game call up last year, but he's made HUGE strides since then.  He's a total boss now.  Very good defensively.  Kudos to him. 

#2474373 1/18 GDT: Kings 2 @ Red Wings 3 (Shootout)

Posted by kipwinger on 19 January 2014 - 02:13 PM


:lol: Too late!  IT'S MINE ALL MINE!!!  HE MADE IT FOR MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!111!!11!


Would you say that it's your "precious"?

#2474103 1/18 GDT: Kings 2 @ Red Wings 3 (Shootout)

Posted by kipwinger on 18 January 2014 - 09:46 PM

I will absolutely, positively, 100%, take it.

#2474041 1/18 GDT: Kings 2 @ Red Wings 3 (Shootout)

Posted by kipwinger on 18 January 2014 - 09:30 PM

I smell a Robocop photoshop for the Todd. I do dig the visor as well.


You think he'll put yellow laces in his skates?