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#2177356 Draft Talk

Posted by newfy on 19 May 2011 - 06:20 PM

Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Filpulla? St Louis? Small skilled forwards are worthless, hell Crosby is under 6 foot he must be worthless too.

Zetterberg and Filppula are both listed at 6 feet, not undersized. Datsyuk is the most skilled player in the league and Crosby has generational talent.

You can name a couple small players who are a few of the best in the league, but for everyone of those small ones there is 5 who aren't small.

So now that youve listed Datsyuk and Crosby as proof that drafting smaller forwards are great.. tell me about how great Hudler and Jason Williams are? You know, the 2 most worthless Red Wings the last few years who have done nothing for the team

#2184613 Mayfield at number 24

Posted by newfy on 11 June 2011 - 05:46 PM

Khocklachev is 5'11" 180. he'll add another inch or two and another 20-30 pounds as well. Why is Mayfield the only guy allowed to grow? 6'1" 205 isn't small by any means.

Youre assuming he'll grow, you have no clue if he'll add 30 pounds or gain another few inches.

Mayfield doesn't need to grow, it is just likely he will put on weight because he is 6'4 and underweight for his height.

Khocklachev is undersized, I'm sure he is a great player but now what the wings need. I can see Armia or whoever because he is 6'3 but why the hell when there are guys that big on the board, would the wings pick another small forward when there is equal skill with size that is going to be around?

#2184316 Wojtek Wolski

Posted by stevkrause on 10 June 2011 - 09:44 AM

NY Post-

Looks like Wolski might only be available as a late summer steal.

I'd be fine with us trading Hudler for Wolski straight up right now, then they can buy out Hudler at less if they want to, or roll with him... I personally think Hudler could still be a valuable player and DO NOT WANT TO turn this into yet ANOTHER Hudler thread, but I think Wolski would really find his niche here and could be huge for us... I'd even be willing for the Wing's to eat the additional 1m in salary for that trade off if needed...

To be honest, I'd rather roll with them both, but I'd take Wolski over Hudler right now and I think he could turn into a 70+ pt a year guy here, maybe more...

#2184397 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by Z and D for the C on 10 June 2011 - 03:53 PM

Tradeable top-six forwards the Wings have right now:

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Hudler, Holmstrom

Z and Dats won't be traded despite Philly's desire. Homer won't be traded, and Philly won't be interested anyway.

Leaves Flip, Mule, and Huds.

blah blah blah blah

Yes. I realize that I put Emmerton on the third line and Helm on the fourth line. I'm not crazy. Emmerton is more suited to being a playmaking center for Franzen and Bertuzzi, and keeping the DHE (or the MHE, as it were) together as a checking line while putting a playmaker of Emmerton's skill on the third line is better than having no real checking line.

I like how the article mentions that all trade deals the wings have been thinking of have Hudler as the outgoing player (ie, not Filppula) yet your "logical" conclusion is, of course, trade Filppula.

#2184368 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by Heaten on 10 June 2011 - 01:45 PM

Some you people's trade ideas are completely outlandish.

#1 Philly doesn't want our overpaid garbage.
#2 Smith is NOT going to be in the NHL full time this year (probably not next year either) - He's been below average defensively in the AHL
#3 Detroit isn't Philly's only trade partner in the NHL - They can do better getting CBJ's 8th pick, unless Kenny wants to offer up Helm, Smith, and Tatar + our 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder. That 8th pick is worth more than our top 3 picks...

That said, Holland could probably get Pronger for a bit cheaper since he has a bad contract...

#2184248 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by eva unit zero on 09 June 2011 - 10:13 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread, something that may be overlooked is Laperriere's status. He's on a 35+ deal, LTIR'd for all of last year, and last word was basically that playing again could be life threatening. He has a cap hit of $1.16 that the Flyers may be stuck with.

If that happens, the cap goes up to $63M, they sign Bryz for $6M, and dump Versteeg, Carle, and both of their other goalies they'd have $7.85M to sign an entire 3rd line + 4th line forward + 3rd pair D + backup goalie + 1-3 depth players. It's a tight fit.

Maybe they think having say Hudler + Leino for the same price as Carter + a minimum wage plug would be better. Maybe add a cheap but attractive prospect like Tatar who could either fill a third line role or be sent to the AHL, and a cheap defenseman with some upside...

Hudler, Tatar, Kindl, 1st, + 3rd (plus maybe Emmerton or Andersson) for Carter and Carle. I think it makes both teams better (though I don't know what prospects Philly already has to fill holes cheaply, so maybe not).

The problem is, as I've stated before, Carter is Philly's go-to faceoff guy. They won't be dealing him without getting a faceoff guy back. Your deal would either have to see Abdelkader added, or Hudler swapped out for Filppula. Ultimately I don't see it going down without Filppula going the other way; Franzen is good on draws and a good player, but he's older than Carter, worse defensively, and a worse passer. Similar in that both are snipers first, but there's not enough cap relief there. Especially with what is lost. Flip has everything Carter does except the shot. And that's a $2.25m difference, which if Philly is lucky might be enough to buy Leino's shot.

what about meszaros? he would be great in a wings uniform :)

Post about Meszaros

#2184240 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by eva unit zero on 09 June 2011 - 09:28 PM

Regarding that deal, I'd rather keep Mursak, Abdelkader, and the pick. Anything I'd trade for Carter would not be good value for Philly. Way too many ???s about him.

Mursak, Abby, and a 2nd for Carter is a steal. There's a good chance only one of Mursak or Abby will be a regular forward on the Wings this coming season. So we're looking at trading a young 4th liner and a young spare forward plus a pick for an elite goal scorer. And age isn't really that big of a factor; Carter is 26, Abdelkader is 24, Mursak is 23. So the only thing here is, do you think that keeping Mursak and Abdelkader, knowing that you'll get maybe 100-120 man-games between them next season and possibly the season after, do you think that beats out Carter's 70-80 games on immediate impact? And do you think having Carter long-term as a top-line caliber player while Mursak and Abdelkader develop into 3rd liners or potentially 2nd liners, and the Wings get a player with the pick who has to go through the development process... which helps the team out more in the next ten years?

I would say that trading for Carter, by a wide margin. If they take a Mursak/Abby deal instead of the Flip/Abby deal I posted, the Wings CAN'T refuse. It would be stupid. The Wings would be able to dress lines like this:




Most NHL teams would be happy with any of those first three lines as their top line. One to test out of course would be Franzen/Carter/Bertuzzi... but I don't see that one working out very well.

#2184175 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by eva unit zero on 09 June 2011 - 03:48 PM

I think Emmerton has to make the team first before he can centre a line. Hudler on the 2nd line and Franzen on the 3rd line? :lol: I'm sure Mule would just love going from having Hank feed him the puck to a rookie trying to make the team. We're not getting Carter.

Hudler is with Carter because Carter is a pure goal scorer. You put playmakers with goal scorers. If we get Carter for Flip (plus), which is the most likely swap, and put Z with Dats, who would you put as Carter's playmaker? Cleary? Helm? Draper? Hudler is the answer. Franzen on Emmerton's wing was primarily to allow for three strong scoring lines, but perhaps you can make one of these switches:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom (or Bertuzzi)
Mursak/Emmerton/Bertuzzi (or Holmstrom)


Perhaps even:


Do you like those any better? And what wingers would you put with Carter that provide the goal-scorer a playmaker? I'd love to hear your answer. The Wings, assuming Flip and Abby are traded for Carter, would have three top-end playmaking forwards. Z, Dats, and Hudler.

So again: If Z and Dats are together, you put Hudler with your best remaining goal-scorer. Carter. If you like, you can put both Carter and Franzen on that line. Could be pretty wicked, especially as a second line.

#2184163 Wings - Flyers Trade Partners?

Posted by eva unit zero on 09 June 2011 - 03:25 PM

Tradeable top-six forwards the Wings have right now:

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Hudler, Holmstrom

Z and Dats won't be traded despite Philly's desire. Homer won't be traded, and Philly won't be interested anyway.

Leaves Flip, Mule, and Huds.

Flip is the logical core of a trade, because Franzen and Hudler are better suited to wing, while Flip is equally strong in all three spots. There would be a remaining core forwards of Richards, Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Versteeg, and Van Riemsdyk, plus a possibly returning Ville Leino. That would add up to seven top-six level forwards capable of 40+ points. Flip would, of course, not be the only piece in the deal, but would provide a faceoff man equal to Carter. Faceoffs are a key point as to why a Filppula/Abdelkader deal might work for Carter. Philly wouldn't trade away their only good faceoff man for a winger like Hudler, who is below average on faceoffs. Blair Betts, at 50.3%, and Claude Giroux (50.046%, or 548 wins and 547 losses) the only player signed for next season other than Carter (54.7%) who was better than a flat 50% who took more than 10 draws.

They will want a faceoff man back. They also can't take too much cap hit back because they need to clear space to sign Bryzgalov. Granted, the numbers being tossed around include both Bobrovsky and Leighton, one or both of whom will not be on the roster, so that's a bit of freedom. But sending Filppula, Abdelkader, Kindl/Smith, and a 1st might bring back Carter and one of Coburn/Carle/Meszaros. The reason I include Abby is because Philly desperately needs faceoff help. This deal allows them to sign Leino simply within the cap relief it provides, and they will have a full roster signed underneath the cap. Thing is, in real life they probably would have to make a deal like this, and then also either trade off Versteeg or not sign Leino, Or perhaps trade two of Carle/Coburn/Meszaros.

They have about $4.5m, give or take, under the cap right now (assuming Bobrovsky is the backup). They have to sign Bryz, Leino, Carcillo, Powe, Nodl, plus O'Donnell or a replacement. Probably looking at the neighborhood of $13m total for those six guys. So... clearing up $8.5m from the cap, are we? Versteeg sounds like a good bet. send him off for a pick and a depth forward or prospect. Cut $2.5m. Now we're at $6m. Let's make that Carter/Filppula deal. Say in the Steeger deal it was a prospect, so we can make Abs work as the replacement for him. Flip and Abs together cut about $4.5m from Carter and Versteeg. Kindl is a savings of $2.5 to $3.25 over Carle/Coburn/Meszaros. So now, all that needs to be cleared up is another $750k-$1.5m. Maybe cut Jody Shelley from the roster and you've got the difference and you drop one of the league-leaders in leaving his team shorthanded.

If Carter IS traded to the Wings in the kind of deal I proposed, I'd like to see a lineup as such:

With Draper:

Without Draper:

Yes. I realize that I put Emmerton on the third line and Helm on the fourth line. I'm not crazy. Emmerton is more suited to being a playmaking center for Franzen and Bertuzzi, and keeping the DHE (or the MHE, as it were) together as a checking line while putting a playmaker of Emmerton's skill on the third line is better than having no real checking line.

#2183677 Former NBA players son on path to pros... in... NHL?!

Posted by stevkrause on 08 June 2011 - 12:27 PM

Great Read! Thanks! And good luck to Seth! I find it disgusting some of the racial comments. I am white and proud, but if a kid, who just happens to have some African American in him, is that good at something that isn't normally associated with minorities, GOD BLESS HIM! I hope he gets drafted and plays 1000+ games in the NHL and score 1000+ points! Good Luck Seth!

no kidding, I don't even read the comment sections of articles like that, they seem to bring out the lowest, scrape of the barrel of society...

I think it's great for the game that racial barriers aren't bogging it down anymore, you are seeing more and more black players make it up through the ranks and the beauty of it is, that (generally speaking - lets leave Emery out of this, haha) the black players that make it to the NHL are FAR better role models for young black kids than majority of the black players in the NBA and NFL...

Two of my favorite young players in the game right now are Chris Stewart and Evander Kane and kids would be MUCH better served looking up to them, than a scumbag low life like Kobe Bryant or (insert Cincinnati Bengal here)

#2183458 Hudler's Future

Posted by blgillett on 07 June 2011 - 08:07 PM

i think Huds will be gone before the start of the season for a late round pick that will help us sign a forward

#2183449 Let's summarize...

Posted by Datsyerberger on 07 June 2011 - 07:48 PM


Did the OP actually put Hudler on the top line, or am I seeing things?

If he puts in good effort in camp and pre-season, I would not be opposed to seeing him on a "top line" that's actually sort of a 1A scenario, particularly if the Wings are trying to roll 3 scoring lines. Hudler tends to be at his best with other high end offensive talent and people that can cover his flaws (slow skating, meh defense partly due to said slow skating).

Hudler - Datsyuk - speed/size
Franzen - Zetterberg - Anything
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Speed/defense

With present forwards:

Hudler - Datsyuk - Cleary
Franzen - Zetterberg - Holmstrom
Mursak - Filppula - Bertuzzi
Abdelkader - Helm - Eaves

If Hudler is playing well enough to justify putting anywhere in the top 9, you don't want Hudler with Filppula. That's just ugly. That excludes lines of:

Anyone - Datsyuk - Anyone
Anyone - Zetterberg - Anyone
Hudler - Filppula - Anyone


Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Anyone
Hudler - Filppula - Anyone

Basically, Hudler shouldn't feature on the same line with Filppula. It's ugly.

So if Hudler is playing up to that level, it leaves line combos of:

Hudler - Datsyuk - Someone (Hudler plays better with Datsyuk than Zetterberg)
Someone - Zetterberg - Someone
Someone - Filppula - Someone


Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom/Cleary
Bertuzzi - Filppula - Franzen
Hudler - Helm - Cleary

Option 1 there seems to work when Hudler is playing well. Option 2 isn't as exciting.. Hudler doesn't seem to do as well with players of relatively low skill. Though I'd say that line is a fair sight better than the Hudler - Modano - Cleary from this last year; Helm + Cleary may have enough speed/grit/d to balance Hudler. I'm just not sure they can all finish well together.

Such is why Hudler makes sense on a 1A/1B scoring line with our present forwards if he's earned any icetime at all.

#2183357 Hudler's Future

Posted by cusimano_brothers on 07 June 2011 - 03:22 PM

Posted Image

Here's hoping he's working on his game of hockey this off-season.

#2183230 Thoughts on Joni Pitkanen

Posted by kipwinger on 07 June 2011 - 08:42 AM

Honestly,I don't know too much about him, alot of folks here get excited about him and alot don't. I've mentioned him before just based on stats and some of the positive stuff I have read on here, but I am reading more and more negative things and I am not liking it.... Honestly, I believe the Wings should sign Wiz, Jovo and Lids, then decide whether or not to pay Ericsson or let Kindl be our #6 guy and have someone else be #7...

I hear things negative and positive about everyone, nobody is 100% positive, there are always negatives about someone, but when the negatives start piling up and passing up the positives, then there may be a problem. The negs I hear about Wiz and Jovo are a little concerning, but I believe the positive things about them outweigh the negatives I have heard. If Holland can convince Ericsson to take 1 year at around $1.5M, Jovo 1 year around $2.5-$3M and Wiz $4-$4.5M, I think the D would be great: Lids, Stuart, Kronwall, Wisniewski, Jovo, Ericsson, Kindl...Add to that whomever they hire as new Asst. Coach, the Wings should have a much better defense than last season. That's about $15M of the possible $21.5M on D, leaving enough to re-sign Miller/Eaves/Goalie & bring up Mursak. (possibly Tanguay or Jokinen as well...)

So, to the topic at hand, after reading positive and negative things about him, I think the Wings should pass on Pitkanen. Especially if he is worse defensively than Rafalski was AND would cost over $5M...

You had me right up until you didn't. I"m going to be very disappointed if the Wings sign Tanguay or Jokinen. What better way to spend money and add absolutely no toughness or physical play up front. Remember that Sharks series? Do you realistically think that Alex Tanguay or Jussi Jokinen would have made one bit of difference in that one? I know they score (so please don't list off a bunch of numbers to me), but we scored last year, and the year before, we always have plenty of scoring up front. We don't have size, toughness, or depth in the top six. Please, please, please, sign Brooks Laich, Erik Cole, or make an offer sheet for Andrew Ladd. Anything other than another 190 lb. European forward.

#2182486 How Much Is Hudler Worth?

Posted by Red Wings Addict on 04 June 2011 - 12:37 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, David Letterman presents the top ten things worth more useful than Jiri Hudler:

Number 10... A bag of pucks.
Number 9... A couple rolls of pink tape.
Number 8... A set of Christian brand hockey sticks.
Number 7... A pair of Daoust skates. Yeah. Daoust skates.
Number 6... Any hockey equipment made by Cooper.
Number 5... A sheet of NHL official team logo pogs--Hellooo!
Number 4... World Champion Icehockey for the Commodore 64.
Number 3... A pre-owned boxed set of the Mighty Ducks movies.
Number 2... A 20% off coupon at the HenrikZetterberg.com store. Hey-yo!
And the number 1 thing that's worth more useful than Jiri Hudler... Link Gaetz's rookie card!!!

Baaaa da da da da daaa da da da...