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I love him being around for two reasons: 1) He is one of the reasons, why when young grinders make it into the Detroit Red Wing's line-up, they are very good at face-offs and are excellent back checkers. I know that the Red Wing mantra has been to always be defensively responsible, but I undoubtedly believe Draper has a huge hand in a lot of the on-ice preparation of this defensive mentality for these young forwards in the Red Wing roster. 2) Every team needs someone who looks like Chuck Norris. So.... bullet points: 1) Mentorship and leadership 2) Chuck Norris

ive been quite critical of osgoods sub-par play this year, but this is just getting old. youre beating a dead horse. osgood was decent yesterday, and without that soft first goal it would have been a completely different game.

I know its not a fair comparison because the 07-08 team won the cup, but just to show how bad Osgood has been this season in 07-08 Osgood was 27-9-4, he had 9 losses and 4 otl in 43 games this season Osgood is 7-9-4, so 9 losses and 4 otl in 23 games He has as many losses/otl as he did 2 seasons ago in 20 less games. His GAA also jumped almost a goal a game (2.09 to 3.02) and Save percentage dropped from .914 to .888 I think its hard to call this season a fluke, his gaa is almost identical this season to last season (3.09 and 3.02) and is Save Percentage is almost identical as well (.888 and .887). We dont have the offense to bail him out this year that we had last year, and his record is reflecting that. I think age has caught up to him, he had a great career as a Red Wing goalie and I respect everything he has done. But its gotten to a point that I cringe everytime he is in net and you can almost put 3 goals on the board for the other team to start.

That's right. Instead of argue the post, go after the poster. That brings an intellectual, civil discussion to the table.

It's always been funny how your overly-optimistic view of the Wings doesn't include Osgood. Nothing approaches game conditions. Ozzy was rusty. He started awful, but got better, and made a few big saves in the third. Osgood played the shot on the 4 on 2, which is what he's supposed to do. Why no comments about Bert's bad decision, Kronwall's awful job playing the pass, and Ericsson trying to cover two Flyers at once and ended up covering neither? Or Lebda deciding to help out Stuart by having them both cover the same man, leaving the entire left side of the ice open? The Wings played below par, including Osgood. But I was surprised at how good he looked in the third. That was about the best to be hoped for after the awful start.

Draper has been great this year for his age and ability. Helm and Eaves really re-energized him. He does kill penalties but probably not key penalties. His forecheck is still great and he does a good job filling in a roster spot and making this team better.

What is the point of comparing those games? Howard had 2 deflections that he had no chance on. Osgood had 2 that he had basically no chance on. Howard>Osgood this year still.The OT one was definitely weak but he has been there for this team all year.

The stats alone won't tell the story. Osgood let in some really crappy goals. Howard didn't.

Some people use "M" for million (my preference), but others us "MM" "m" = milli "M" = mille and mille is Latin for thousand, so MM = thousand thousand, which = million.

In all of Osgood's starts: Philadelphia: First shot Minnesota: First shot Washington: 18 minutes into the second period Chicago: 7 minutes into the first, 7th shot on net Nashville: 14 minutes into the second New Jersey: 15 minutes into the first Calgary: First shot Nashville: 10 minutes into the first Florida: 8 minutes into the third Toronto: 10 minutes into the first San Jose: 14 minutes into the second Boston: Shut out Calgary: 14 minutes into the second Vancouver: Less than a minute into the first Phoenix: 16 minutes into the first Colorado: 9 minutes into the third LA: 5 minutes into the first Buffalo: 12 minutes into the first Washington: 4 minutes into the first Chicago: 1 minute into the second St. Louis: 7 minutes into the first So: (<10 into the first/<0 into the second/<10 into the second/<0 into the third/<10 into the third/>10 into the third/overtime/none against) 9-4-1-4-2-0-0-1 9/21 times Osgood has been scored on within 10 minutes of play. 4 of 21 on the first shot. Numbers could be off but that should be just about correct. I'll do Howard later (that's what she said).

Everyone knows this is about Osgood's performance tonight. If he had done fine today there would not have been a thread about how Osgood is 2-6-2 in his last ten. No ******* chance.

Is this post a joke? This is like the 4th time i have said this, but here we go again. You can't get on Howard for having one off game, but you can get on Osgood for having an entire season that is bad. What is howards save percentage on the year and what is Osgoods.

Well if your going with the Osgood is cold excuse, then im going to take the Howard is tired excuse. But what i was actually saying is osgood has sucked all year, howard had an off game. So yes there is a huge difference.

Yesterday... Howard 17 saves on 21 shots...lost the game...4-3...only got a point because of miraculous goal by Pavs at the end. Today... Ozzie 21 saves on 25 shots...lost the game...4-3...faced tons of odd man rushes... Yesterday Howard...playing with a rested team at home Today Ozzie...Playing with a tired team on the road... Looks like they both sucked to me...looks like the team played flat and uninspired in both games to me... Yet nobody cares Howard sucked yesterday...But people are saying that Ozzie "isn't supporting this team" or "isn't putting in a good effort" or "shouldn't be back next year" How about as a team they put forth minimal effort 2 nights in a row, and faced teams that wanted to win more and showed it. How about both goalies had bad games? And the team had bad games? Before chastising Ozzie for today, look at Howie's stats yesterday...with the rested team...at home...then look at Ozzie's stats today...(though not good he doesn't deserve the horse s*** people throw at him) Support both goaltenders...they are both very talented. Howard is 26, Ozzie is 37. Its a changing of the guard, which is a well timed. But without Ozzie, Howard wouldn't be as good as Howard is this season. Keep that in mind folks. Ozzie is to Howard what Vernon was to Ozzie.

Comparing Osgood's starts to Howard's starts this season is comparing apples to oranges. Osgood hasn't started in over two months. OVER TWO MONTHS. Howard has been allowed to play his hot streak with continuous plays while 37yo Osgood has been put out in the cold since November, only playing the second of back-to-back games with a line-up that is depleted and/or tired. The Wings played like crap, they deserved to lose, they lost, period. Howard has had a few rocky starts lately as well, but the team has played great when he has an off night. Against Nashville yesterday they were gifted a point thanks to Datsyuk. Against Edmonton they were probably headed for another shootout loss before Stuart's probably-high-stick goal in the last minutes, after blowing a 4 goal lead. I get it, I do. You're bummed the Wings lost and you don't like Osgood, life's a ***** and then you die. But Osgood's W-L are not helped by the team's effort or the fact that he was basically retired early by Babcock in favor of Howard. Howard is a far superior tender right now, but its because he has been allowed to be. Osgood didn't lose this game, despite the very soft first goal and whether Howard would have had the 3rd goal is the only debatable point, he wouldn't have had the 2nd off a 4 on 2 or the 4th off a horrible defensive lapse. Basically all you've managed to do is say our 37yo backup goaltender who averages one start every fourteen games since November, always second of back-to-back, has had a terrible record. That sounds about right, way to go statistician.

That makes no sense. If Ozzy plays square on the player in the middle, he is cheating and leaving the net open for the puck carrier. He has to respect the shot but be ready for the pass. Osgood was too aggressive on the shot, but Kronwall and Ericsson also misplayed it badly. Then there's also the point that it was a friggin 4 on 2.

Not a chance in hell

Zetterberg was invisible last night IMO. To be honest Fil has looked like the best player on that line since it's been put together. Great for Fil, not so great for Z.

i want ozzy to play crap just to shut up you guys who are on his nuts, ozzy is garbage.

Excellent post. If there was anyone on the team I could trade, it would be this guy. The return would be very good as well. Teams are always looking for a PP QB, Rafalski best quality.

Here is my contribution. I have an idea for another one I will do tomorrow.

I found this after looking for some high-res pictures for a background, and I have to say I think it is funny that Stuart of all people is going after the beach ball since he has been swiping away countless stray pucks from behind both Howard and Osgood this season.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=510915&...vid=DL|NHL|home

I was about to blast you for putting in players who didn't hardly play in the 2000s but then I read 90s.

Him and his stacked Vancouver team sure did a hell of a lot last year.