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I think this is a good assessment. I would add Rafalski, because he has the nerve not to be Nick Lidstrom.

Detroit Roster Dallas Roster Penalties # Name G A +/- S Pim 2 B.Smith 0 1 +4 0 0 21 T.Tatar 1 0 +1 4 0 25 B.Lashoff 0 0 +1 3 0 27 T.Ehrhardt 2 0 +5 2 2 36 J.Pearce 0 0 0 0 0 38 T.McCollum 0 0 0 0 0 47 B.Raedeke 0 0 0 2 0 49 A.Nestrasil 0 0 0 4 0 50 B.Macek 1 0 +4 1 0 53 L.Aubry 1 1 +4 3 0 54 S.Piche 0 0 0 3 2 56 A.Cord 0 0 0 0 0 57 L.Ferraro 0 0 0 5 0 58 D.Archibald 0 2 +5 2 0 60 T.Parkes 1 0 +1 2 0 62 J.Anderson 0 0 +1 1 0 64 S.Johnston 0 0 -1 2 2 65 M.Callahan 0 0 0 3 4 67 G.Fournier 0 0 +1 0 2 70 W.Coetzee 0 0 +1 1 0

Not to worry about Fleury. He'll be fine. Bettman has made sure all thresholds are lowered and lighted from all locker rooms to the ice.

Bring back the negative ratings!

Does this really pass as valid criticism? A variance in scoring between one game and the next? I hate to be that guy that says "you don't know hockey," but you have to watch that or just about any sport for about five minutes to understand that scores will vary, often wildly, between games. However these "inconsistent" Red Wings have found a kindred spirit in a team I believe you hold dear. Let me direct you to the case of Montreal v. Pittsburgh, wherein the Pens scored six goals in the first game but then required the next four games combined to reach that total. Perhaps their age is catching up with them -- 23 is the new 40.

Yeah, "running through the league" is real tough in that brutal Eastern Conference.

Good one! esteef

If he wasn't 6'4 he would actually look like he was about 12 but there aren't a lot of 6'4 12 year old so I guess that works to his advantage

He's got 99 problems, but the Cup ain't one.

Not much of a point. Consider the fact that Ellis has in just the last two years made more money than ~90% of Americans will make in their lifetime. Consider that at age 45, assuming he is credited for 160 games played, he'll get a pension of $45,000/year or more. Consider that retiring from hockey doesn't mean he is unable to work at all. Consider that his high income now gives him extraordinary investment opportunities. He really doesn't have anything to complain about. I too can understand being upset about losing 18% (or whatever it was) of your expected income. Only natural. But he should also be grateful enough about what he does make to not worry about it. And he damn sure shouldn't be whining about it on the internet. That was just downright stupid. Lol.

I was noticing the little plus symbol recently because it's the same as something I work on at work, but I didn't notice the minus gone. Now you have me wondering. No I never have. The person below me is hungry. I'm starving and nothing to eat at the parent's place where I'm at right now.

Wings vs. Leafs. Granted it would require hell freezing over first, but I can dream. It'd sure be good for the NHL.

Fedotenko will fit in perfectly with the Rangers.... a somewhat talented player who plays hard about 15% of the time.

Lidstrom hardly 'lost a step' (as so many say) last year. He was still extremely solid and scored closed to 50 points, all while playing for a team that was essentially Grand Rapids for half the year. To look at two different games is silly. Things like that happen all the time. If you look back at any of the teams in last years playoffs, you'll probably find that most of them had a high scoring game, followed by at least one low scoring game. Detroit has been the model for consistency for a long time. Age has nothing to do with it. We have about 5 players who are old, the rest are in their prime, or are young players, just entering their prime. Have you missed the massive list of players who Chicago lost? They lost about 7 players. Sure, most were bottom liners, but the fact is, you don't win a cup with just 2 lines. You need to have four lines, all working hard. Chicago will make the playoffs, but they won't make it past the second round (if they make it past the first) Take this from one of the few people on here who actually LIKE the Hawks as a team (I hate 90% of their fans though) There aren't a whole lot of different players from that team from 3 years ago. Goalies: 07/08 - Osgood/Hasek (Howard was #3) 10/11 - Howard/Osgood Not much change there. Hasek didn't even play in the playoffs, and Howard showed last year he has the potential to be amazing. Much better than Fleury... Defense: 07/08 - Lilja, Quincey, Lidstrom, Meech, Lebda, Stuart, Chelios, Rafalski, Stafford, Kindl, Ericsson, Kronwall 10/11 - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Salei, Kindl Again, not much difference. Most of the players we had in 08 that are gone, either were not very good (Meech, Lebda and Quincey at the time), old (Chelios). I don't even KNOW who Stafford is, so I doubt he was very important at all. Offense: 07/08 - Abdelkader, Cleary, Drake, Maltby, Downey, McCarty, Hudler, Samuelsson, Helm, Kopecky, Franzen, Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Draper, Zetterberg, Ritola, Hartigan, Filppula 10/11 - Abdelkader, Andersson, Bertuzzi, Callahan, Cleary, Coetzee, Datsyuk, Draper, Eaves, I.Filppula, V.Filppula, Franzen, Helm, Holmstrom, Hudler, Johnson, Maltby, Miller, Minard, Modano, Owens, Ritola, Tardif, Tatar, Zetterberg This year's lineup includes a few new faces. Many of whom I know nothing about, and includes many GR prospects who won't see much playing time. The only real differences are: Gone - Drake, Downey, McCarty, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Hartigan Come - Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller, Modano Aside from the fighters, we haven't lost much. Modano is at least as good as Drake was, Eaves/Miller are both very good PKer's who also add more offense than any of the players except Sammy, and Bert is a solid player. So, aside from Sammy, we haven't lost anyone who hasn't been replaced, OR upgraded. You're very right. We're not the 07/08 Wings. We're much, MUCH better. I'd say the only Wings line-up that was better would be the 02 lineup, but in the salary cap days, NO team has had 3 scoring lines as good as this years team. Our third line is better than many team's second lines. I'd say everyone in the world would take Lidstrom alone over the entire Pen's D core. Lidstrom has been the most dominant defensemen in recent history, and one of the best ever. Rafalski is still a top-notch offensive D-man. Many knock him for his defensive zone play, but that was never his strength. He showed at the Olympics, and during our post-olympic run that he still has what it takes to play. Add on top of that Stuart and Kronwall, who are as good or better than some other teams first pairing. Salei and E are a bit of a question mark, especially Ericsson. The guy has potential to be a very, very good d-man, top 4 material for sure, he just has to get going. We've seen him at his best before, and he was amazing. Last year was a let down, sure, but it was his real rookie year. He's only getting better.

I love how a Penguins fan comes to a Red Wings board and then somehow acts suprised when Red Wings fans defend/hype their team. Brilliant. Counting the days until Crosby can't escape Hank's shadow (again).

Schwhat??!?! Thank You, xtrememachine1!!! Sanity and intelligent response at last.

yea im sure we had some crying about getting - on their posts. Like it meant anything. hahahahahaha but but but crosby hit a home run!!!

Wasn't that Brett Hull, said when they were told in 2001-2 that the Wings were too old to win a cup? I believe he said it to Chris Chelios. I'm going from memory here. I could be wrong.

A wise man once said, "I'd rather be old and wise than young and dumb any day."

99% of things i see posted on other teams fan sites about the Wings.... Wings are old Wings are too old Wings will miss playoffs because they are old Joe Louis retirement home jokes Wings will suck next year because they are old I hate the Wings I hope Wings go on 50 year playoff drought Wings are old

Your name is a joke right? Wings over Pens

Screw Crosby. esteef

f*** dan ellis...he put up a twitpic of a collapsed building in detroit saying it was a new luxary loft or something like that...he is an ass.

Mike Ricci long gone, and now Rob Brind'Amour retiring... jesus... there's no real churro left in this league... congrats to a great career! perhaps not a Hall of Fame, but sure bet worth admiration.