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As I scan the threads started in the last two games I see the following topics, "Osgood and Draper... turn the page", Lidstrom Final Year, with such replies as how slow he is, how he turns over the puck, how his offense is terrible. There's also "We need a goalie...Osgood is done, and my personal favorite and probably the most laughable, "Is Zetterberg on the decline?" Yes I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yes last night was an abysmal outing by our winged warriors, Osgood let in four goals on 11 shots and yes he seems to be a step slower but two were not what I would call "bad" goals to give up. The Wings were giving up odd man rushes and we couldn't sustain any offensive pressure. It appears we have been hit with the injury bug again Abbey, Rafalski, Franzen, and now Cleary are all out. The part that I don't understand is the first half of this season, (yes two games ago) this team was playing so well that everyone thought the cup was on its way back. I know a lot can happen in half a season, (two more games) but it seems to me that the fall from grace was fast and hard. These are the same Detroit Red Wings that have the longest playoff streak in pro-sports history, these are the Red Wings whose idea of a terrible season is a first round exit, they have the same coach that was "the best in the NHL" a week ago, they have the same 40yr old graying leader that the city and press alike were begging to return. We have the same two forwards ESPN and Sporting News rated in the top 15 league wide. As for our goaltending, we have an aging backup who was praised for his first start this year, hell the idea of a 50/50 split was even being tossed around, and a rookie starter whom was a Calder runner up last year and has already posted a convincing shutout this season. Come on people the Lions would kill for this measuring stick. Now this is not to say that there aren't things to criticize about the team thus far, but the Red Wings have proven season in and season out that they know how to win, they always find a way to generate some kind of success...I understand why the press prints these headlines, it's polarizing and sells newspapers, I just don't get it from the fans. This team deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with you 100%. As a true fan of the Red Wings, I can tell you that there are parts of me that want to not come back to these forums. Mainly because of the attitude of some of the posters here. I regularly talk with Wings fans at lunch and have better conversations with them than I do with posters here. I guess a lot of it has to do with the fact that many internet posts can be brutal. People speak their minds, and with anonymity, truly nice people can turn into morons quickly. I lay it out a lot like you do. 1. The management deserves our full support. If not for the consecutive postseason appearances, but for the tradition of winning that has been built. 2. The players deserve our full support. No player is going to be a top line player like Lidstrom for 20 years. Even he is not immune from the negativity, which surprises me. I guess all it took was one non-Norris trophy like season for the commoners to turn on our captain. Anyway, every player deserves to be supported. They all play their hearts out and to chew into them for their mistakes or belittle them is really dumb. That isn't to say that conversation shouldn't happen. Sure, anyone can ask the question if "player A should be signed" or "player B didn't play well". What is just wrong are the attacks against players, management, and ownership from moronic fans. Case in point, look at the "need a goalie" post. Osgood has sucked the last 3 years? 2008 was one of his best seasons! Talk about uninformed and dumb just because of that fact. A majority of posters in these forums are not true Wings fans. They are what I would call bandwagoners. The instant that the team falls on hard times, these posters will be joining up on the Sharks or Hawks forums and claiming that they are fans. Just watch. All it will take is one bad season to make it happen. I certainly hope that doesn't happen, but I suppose there is an advantage if it does happen. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. When they won the Stanley Cup, everyone was a Lightning fan. I have a friend who has been a season ticket holder to the Lightning since they started playing. At the start, it was the ticket to have in Tampa Bay, and the general hockey knowledge was pretty low. After the Stanley Cup run, he would describe it as one of the most uninformed hockey fanbase he had ever known. Fans would ride the players and be non-supportive if they weren't doing well. Today, its a great time to be a hockey fan in Tampa Bay because the team is playing well, Yzerman is in charge, and the base of fans is small but they are die hard fans who support the team. That, IMHO, is the best time to be a real fan of the team. Ah well, I have said enough. This is very true. Without the common idiots, it really is not entertaining to go to forums and read the posts.

I think Datsyuk has played well.

It seems like our power play is not kicking anyones ass and yes I'm well aware we won with a PP goal

This guy comes to mind.

We need a new defensive coach to remind these players they are some of the best defensemen in the game and they need to play like it.

Using that name should be a suspendable offense. Not because it's wrong to criticize Osgood, but just because it's so obvious and stupid. Even when bashing players, LGW sets the bar higher than that.

Sorry our powerplay is not useless, therefore it's not an "enforcer". Powerplays always take some time to get going, I'm not going to worry too much unless we go 0/20 or are still struggling 20 games in.

Wow, elbows, slashes, and dirty hits. Sounds like you saw a hockey game.

If this team's power play sucks, then there are 17 teams who suck even worse. Of the top 5 power play % teams so far (only 5 games for the Wings so nothing to be proud or ashamed of just yet), only one is even in the Top 8, the other 4 can be found near the bottom of the Western Conference standings. Converting on the power play would be nice but it just got the boys 2 points and moved them into 4th place barring other team's above them gaining points/spots. The worst time to ask if something sucks is when the team wins specifically due to that "sucky" thing.

Your buddy Hasek was notorious for having slow starts to the season. He always used to end up fine by the end. I'll worry about this down the stretch. I think both of our goalies are more than capable individually to get the job done. Osgood's proven it throughout his career and while Howard's still got some things to learn and prove, he's got a lot of skill and potential to become a solid NHL starter for a long time. Our goalies fall victim to defensive sabotage far too often. That is what worries me year after year since our last Cup. They're too talented to play as sloppy as they do far too often. We have a balanced team. We don't have the biggest name goalies that you can hope will carry you when everyone else lets you down. That model works fine and we've proven that again and again. But the defense has to hold up their end of the bargain which they too often haven't. The all time elites wouldn't be fairng much better in many of the games the last few years with our defense playing as poorly as they have. Again, I think both goalies are capable of getting the job done. McCrimmon? He's given no reason for us to believe he has control of the defense at any point since he's taken over. That's what really worries me.

Haha all during the offseason Hudler was the main guy you all claimed made the biggest difference in why the Red Wings weren't that great last season. I thought he was supposed to be Jesus?

It's funny because Osgood could let in only one goal the entire season and people would still be calling for him to be released.

Neither of our goalies inspire great confidence in me, frankly. Doesn't mean I don't like them. I just mean this I would never expect either to win a game for the Wings or do anything extraordinary out there. But they are who we have. If the rest of the team wakes up and realizes they need to play the way they must in order to win, we'll be fine. Blocks shots, don't screen the goalie, don't deflect pucks in, clear the crease, don't allow shooters to walk right in on either goalie, it's going to go in. Just...show up. I don't think Ozzie or Jimmy can play any better than they do right now. JMO.

Well Since Ozzie seems to be "Done" after one bad start.... Lets look at the other NHL goalies that need to "GO" this year so far. Marc Andrey Fluery 0-3 Marty Broduer 1-3 Ryan Miller 1-3 GET RID OF THEM...... they are all DONE! Is this really a discussion 5 games into the season?

If Stafford had a left tackle that would protect him from getting blindsided by 280 pound defensive ends right off the snap, it would help a lot too.

Madonna isn't in his prime anymore. He's never been a shut down center, which is what 3rd line centers are predominantly used for. It's not something he'll likely feel comfortable doing. And anything you say about Hudler is overly biased and wildly unrealistic. He's nothing more than a skilled player that occasionaly plays well when he has the right linemates. He's too streaky and not consistent enough to be relied upon game to game.

What else does Hudler do besides score? Unlike some of the over exuberant posters around here, commons sense told me that Madonna and Hudler are not good 3rd line players. They're not used to being in that role and are both subpar defensively. Also, they're pass first guys, and there's no pure goal scorer on that line for them to pass it to. Not to mention, both players aren't willing enough to play along the boards. It's early, but I'm sticking to my preseason prediction that the whole line isn't likely to work well.

We have some of the most spoiled, entitled, bitter fans on the planet. If we don't win 10-0 every night, everyone sucks or is too old/should be traded. It doesn't matter whose fault it actually was, if it was one player having a s*** night while everyone else was doing their best to overcome it or if it was the whole team crapping the bed. This is every. damn. season. It's relentless. We've played four games. FOUR. F-O-U-R. 1-2-3-4. Une, deux, trois, quatre. Uno, dos, tres, quatro.

All the really successful sports teams have the most neurotic fans. Fans have the right to think what they want. They don't "owe" the team anything really. The team provides fans with entertainment, while fans provide teams and owners with actual revenue, which goes into player salaries. LGW is actually more fun with neurotic threads. Go to a Panthers or Thrashers board, and see how many people give a damn there. Not many, hence not as interesting a discussion board.

Hence my follow up comment to Doc saying that this is embarrassing. And it is. Four games into the season and only the 2nd game he's started? For serious? If my eyes roll back any further into my skull, I'll be looking at my brain stem.

Well if detroit is gonna have a great goalie say goodbye to atleast a top6forward or top4 defenseman... probably more.. because they have a salary of 5-7M

Hot damn! Another Pylon for the I-5/Katella exit (insider joke)! I can imagine the conversation he had with himself since his visa was up - 'Hmmmmmm - OC or Siberia? Tuff call'. He should fit in well with the Dux new D strategy - 'just plant yourself there and don't move.'

Oh the irony. Lilja was unemployed because the Wings picked up Salei, a former Duck, who then scraps with Sutton, injuring his thumb to create an employment opportunity for Lilja with the Ducks.

"Could Eaves be put on waivers?" Technically, Zetterberg and Datsyuk 'could' be put on waivers too. There's no restrictions to who can't be placed on waivers. I think Eaves chances of being placed on waivers is about equal to Modano's chances to being placed on waivers... Zero percent chance.