Leaderboard

Come back, Nick.

So every bad personnel decision is Hollands fault, and every good one is Scotty Bowman's. Got it.

If Bowman's influence were so substantial and so grand, then the Blackhawks would be a much better team right now. Some of you are far too intent on finding someone to blame.

I will take big fast and nasty from any country

Nah dude, Holland is God. We're just spoiled, entitled fans. esteef

Can we get some people on record calling Cleary dead weight, so when he bounces back and has another 20 goal year, you can all eat crow? The guy is a warrior who gives it his all night in and night out and was still one of our best forwards come playoff time DESPITE playing on knees that were basically held together by twine and bubble gum... He had successful surgery and will come back with a bang this year, mark my words, and you can even bookmark this post.

Evander Kane is a Better Option than Zach Parise I can’t lie; missing out on Ryan Suter was a huge blow to our defense and a run for the cup this coming year. However… While left wing Zach Parise is a great talent, he is not worth the price Minnesota paid for him. At the prime age of 27 years, Zach Parise scored 31 goals. Kenny Holland was actually pushing the limit offering Parise $90 million over 13 years ($6.92Mp/r). Left wing Evander Kane on the other hand is 6 years younger, stronger, tougher, and bigger! Not even in his prime yet at 20 years, scored over 30 goals last season. Currently he’s a restricted free agent in Winnipeg. I’d offer Evender Kane a long-term 13 year deal worth $80 million. That’s just over $6 million per year. It will cost the Wings a first, second, and a third rounder. However, in the long-term Evander Kane will become a better value than Zach Parise. Next year we need to gear up to buy Shea Weber. OFFER COMPENSATION $1,110,249 or below None Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 Third-round choice Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 Second-round choice Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 First-round and third-round choice Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 First-round, second-round and third-round choice Over $6,728,781 to $8,410,976 Two first-round choices, one second- and one third-round choice Over $8,410,976 Four first-round choices

Let's take a look at the resume' of one Ken Holland from July 2008 to now. July 2008 is when Scotty Bowman left our then great organization to work alongside his son in the Blackhawks front-office (I'm not sure of the exact date, so I'll just include all the things that happened that month on Holland's post-Bowman resume'). There are those here who believe that Bowman's role in our organization as an advisor was not a large one, but I am certainly not one of those fans. I think that Holland having Bowman to go to for advice made a very significant difference in a lot of things around here; and I think that we should all at least take a look at Ken Holland's post-Bowman resume'. Significant Draft Picks (that have played in at least one NHL game...the 2008 draft was in June): -2009: Tomas Tatar (9 career games, 1 goal, 1 point) -2010: Riley Sheahan (1 career game, 4 penalty minutes) -2011: -2012: ...10 games, 1 point and 4 penalty minutes out of our last three drafts (and 0 playoff games). That's not good. I know it takes time to develop young players in general. I know that we draft especially young players. I know that we like to take an especially long time to develop them. And I know that we've got some other potentially promising prospects in the system that we've drafted since then - Cale Jarnrkrok(2010), Teemu Pulkkinen(2010), Petr Mrazek(2010) and Tomas Jurco(2011). But still, it's not good. There are other NHL teams that have drafted significant contributors late since 2009. And how much are we really expecting of the aforementioned prospects anyways? I won't hold this against Ken Holland for the reasons stated above, but his post-Bowman drafting has certainly not yet shown itself to be a positive. That much is fair. Significant Free Agent Signings: -2008/2009: M. Hossa, T. Conklin -2009/2010: T. Bertuzzi, D. Miller, P. Eaves, J. Williams. -2010/2011: R. Salei, M. Modano -2011/2012: I. White -2012/2013: D. Brunner, M. Samuelsson, J. Tootoo, J. Gustavsson ...Man, underwhelming, isn't it? The Hossa signing was a great one for sure. But it was him and his agent that sought us out, not the other way around. The Ian White signing I thought was great, but not an enormous impact-signing. The Bertuzzi signing was okay I guess. Salei was a solid signing, for the price, as a sixth D. Miller is a solid depth guy. Eaves would be, albeit an overpaid one, if he was healthy. Conklin was okay as a backup. Williams and Modano didn't pan out. The one's this off-season we'll have to wait and see on. But man, honestly, in the last five seasons White is really the only significant addition that we've made to the team through FA. Certainly a negative for Holland here thus far. Significant Trades: -2008/2009: -2009/2010: -2010/2011: V. Leino for O. Tollefsen -2011/2012: 1st round pick for K. Quincey -2012/2013: ...The Leino trade was obviously a horrific one. IMO, the Quincey one was a waste of a pick as well (he's not very..good). Certainly another negative for Holland here thus far. Results: -2008/2009: Stanley Cup Finals Losers. -2009/2010: Second round exit. -2010/2011: Second round exit. -2011/2012: First round exit. -2012/2013: ...Seems we're just getting worse and worse, losing more and adding less, with each passing season since Bowman left. Cooincidence? I think not. ***** Here's a new way to evaluate Holland's performance here since Bowman left: How has he replaced what we've lost from the 2008 Stanley Cup Championship team he inherited? It might not be an all-inclusive method of evaluation, but it's certainly an angle that's at least worth looking at. *Keep in mind that we're talking about the player we had IN 2008...and then what we have now. Forwards: J. Hudler----------D. Brunner. I'll have to see it to believe it, but from what we've been told, Brunner now shouldn't be much of a drop-off from Hudler of 08. T. Holmstrom----------G. Nyquist. Very, very different players, but I really, really like Nyquist, so I'll dare to again say "not much of a drop-off." K. Draper----------J. Abdelkader. Abby might never be what Draper was, but isn't much worse now than Draper was in 08...aside from faceoffs. Not much of a drop-off. D. Drake----------T. Bertuzzi. Again, very different players. Drake did some things Bert doesn't. Bert does some things Drake didn't. Not much of a drop-off. D. McCarty----------J. Tootoo. Tootoo's not the intimidator McCarty was, even in 08. McCarty wasn't the skater that Tootoo is. Not much of a drop-off. K. Maltby----------D. Miller. See the Draper/Abdelkader comparision. Not much of a drop-off. M. Hartigan----------P. Eaves. Probably the one instance amongst the forwards of actual improvement. Too bad it's the 14th forward. Defensemen: N. Lidstrom----------J. Ericsson. I won't even dignify this by attempting to compare. B. Rafalski----------I. White. Not even close. B. Stuart----------K. Quincey. Not really close. A. Lilja----------B. Smith. Perhaps an improvement? B. Lebda----------J. Kindl. How in the world do you not improve over Lebda in 4 seasons? C. Chelios----------??? Goalies: C. Osgood----------J. Howard. Not quite there yet. But not that far off either. D. Hasek----------J. Gustavsson. Backup goalies don't matter enough to get into this one. In general: 1) The forward group remains more or less the same, though older. I'd say that age has had more of a negative impact than development has had a positive impact. 2) The defensive group has been completely wiped out and not even close to replaced in most cases. 3) The goalies are more or less the same. So, there you have it. That's what Ken Holland's done. Hasn't improved anything since he's been here. Has let us get A LOT worse on the back end. That's it. All there is to it. Bottom line. Period.

Hence acquiring Bobby Ryan...adding Shane Doan only helps this team...This guy can and will score 30+ goals playing with Pav or Z...Ryan scoring 40 is not unrealistic. Bobby Ryan is 24...trade for him then in three years tie him up for the rest of his career...Parise who? to ANA : Val Filppula, Jan Mursak, Tomas Tatar, 2nd round pick to DET : Bobby Ryan it's almost explains itself....sign Doan, Kubina, Q if the price is right... Roll On! (Getzlaf, Perry, Weber available next July) What do you mean? He offered Suter less money so he could play for your team....he did it for you!

Take what picks? If the Wings don't accept the arbitrated salary, is he not a UFA? And he can't be offer-sheeted after filing for arbitration. Furthermore, do you really believe that anybody would give a first and a third up for him anyways? The Wings paid a premium because it was the deadline, there are now similar options available for nothing. We're not getting any picks, and we need Quincey.

And get who for a GM some one who isn't half as good as Kenny he is the best in the business bar none

Semin will come to Detroit, and the season will have a happy ending in June. I can foresee it.

Seriously, there's still time for the Captain to bail us out on this one.

Yes, I believe the salaries are adjusted accordingly...if the cap goes down 10% so does all salaries...I do believe...

Ok, you said it "HE WOULD BE A SOLID SECOND CENTER..." that is what Anaheim wants in return...nobody is s***ting on Filppula. But you are not going to get Bobby Ryan for our 13-16th forwards in trade...geez! Anaheim wold not take Franzine from us...they want Filppula. Filppula almost guarantees Selanne returns for another year, he has said for awhile now he wants to play with Flip. Filppula is both our trump card and the key to this trade...I too would rather trade Franzine before Flip....or niether at all and just give them five 13th forwards for Ryan, but it doesn't work that way... Filppulla/Mursak/Tatar/Draft Pick should get it done. Great 2nd line center and two NHL ready prospects...we will not miss those two guys...first of all we'd have Bobby frickin Ryan and our stable is still full of younsters: Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Jurco, Frk, Sheahan, Sproul, Tvrdon, Athanasiou, Bodin, McKee...the future will be fine!

all the naysayers on here are ending our season already? Holland isn't done... Doan is still there, there was just a report that Holland is in the hunt of Bobby Ryan, so it's not like we have sunk to the deepest depths of the Central division. I would say if Holland got Ryan, Doan and Kubina, other than Suter being better than most of our D, and honestly, I would put Kronwall right up there with him...Kronner had 37 points being on the 2nd pairing, Suter had 46 points on the 1st pairing...when it comes to hitting, Kronwall eats him up all day. I would give Suter the nod defensively, but other than that, pretty equal...except when it comes to pay... Parise actually had better centers in NJ. Koivu is really good, but there is only room for one leftwing on his line and Heatley will start bitching if he gets bumped off of it...he is the f***in allstar you know... It's not like I am saying they aren't any better, of course these two makes them tons better, but I think Parise scores less in Minny than he did in NJ...I could be wrong, but we will see. I am more afraid of the Blues (:puke: oh....excuse me that just snuck up on me) than I am of the Wild... They are not in the central so we won't see them as much as I'd like, but no, I am not afraid. As long as Holland isn't done. Ryan, Doan, Kubina and I think Holland is ready to roll... FORWARDS Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m) Shane Doan ($5.750m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m) Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m) Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m) Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) / Ian White ($2.875m) Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,383,712; BONUSES: $462,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,816,288 It's not as pretty as having Parise and Suter on there, but it's still a very VERY good roster...

An excellent point made here by Pierre Lebrun at ESPN which should give Wings fans much hope some good players could show up yet: In the end, Detroit has another avenue: wait it out until the new collective bargaining agreement is signed, sealed and delivered. Several teams I’ve spoken with over the past few weeks believe there will be bargains to be had on good players come September, October or November -- whenever there’s a new CBA -- because some overspending teams will have miscalculated and will need to get rid of players to get under the new cap. At least a half-dozen teams I know of are waiting for this. Detroit could benefit from that as well. Much more on the Wings and a good read in general: http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/18230/debate-wither-the-wings-and-rick-nash?

How much will you donate to a charity of the community's choice if you're wrong?

Elite or not, as it stands, they have a much stronger roster than us and I'm willing to guarantee that they finish ahead of us in the standings next season.

I feel the most important thing to do is trade for Bobby Ryan...why? Not only will he be great here (as he is in ANA) but next season BOTH Getzlaf and Perry are UFA's...would they be butt buddies like Parise/Suter and want to go somewhere together? If Bobby Ryan were here, it could give Detroit a bit of an advantage in that...even if just one joined him here... Odds are Quincey will get signed (blah) unless he is awarded a God awful contract...Trade for Ryan, Sign Doan... accept Q's contract if it is low enough and go from there...next season...try to score Weber (as will the rest of the NHL) and then try to get Perry or Getzlaf... I cannot stress enough how important getting Bobby Ryan has on the future of this franchise...Filppula will get a $5M contract next July, Ryan is signed for two more after this at $5.1M...next year, Ryan at $5.1M is far more valuable than Fil at $5M. I love Filppula, but have problem giving him up in a package to get Ryan...as long as it doesn't cost Smith...get the deal done! edit: Also if Holland wants to keep Kindl at #7, he could sign Kubina... FORWARDS Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m) Shane Doan ($5.750m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($1.350m) Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m) Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Pavel Kubina ($3.000m) Kyle Quincey ($3.550m) / Ian White ($2.875m) Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,383,712; BONUSES: $462,500 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,816,288 I am actually ok with this roster...I have obviously traded Filppula, Cleary, Mursak and Emmerton all in various fashions...I am not saying that is the package to get Ryan by no means. But Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, pick should do it. Then Cleary could just be traded for a 3rd round pick and Emmerton can be traded as well for a pick. For the record, I'd much rather trade Franzine, but Anaheim would take Filppula or sure...

we'd pick so late we wouldn't get anyone we even want

Good lord, why is there such an allure to rebuilding? I swear some of you just can't stand not seeing Landeskog's, RNH's, Yakupov's, and other high profile overrated prospects in our system...you'd think the last 20 years of wings drafting would change that, but apparently not. Why in gods name would we rebuild? we have Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Howard, Kronwall, Helm, Franzen, and Filppula...that's 7 high caliber championship players. You don't rebuild when you have assets like that lol. There are teams with wayyyyy less than what we have who aren't rebuilding, why in the hell would we? Oh, and did I also mention we already have an extremely deep pool of prospects? Smith, Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Mrazek, Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco, Sproul, Andersson, Ouellet, Pulkkinen, Tvrdon, Marchenko, Quine, Ferraro, Callahan, Frk, Athanasiou, Mckee, Paterson, Nestrasil, Dekeyster (most likely)....we need to tank to acquire prospects why? Our D is tore up yes....but our forward lines are more than shored up, and our goaltending is shored up...we'll probably end up trading some of our many extra forwards for more d-men so chill man.

Kinda sucks we didn't get Konopka. Abby-Konopka-Tootoo would be fun to watch

HockeyyInsiderr is a DoucheyyIdiott

Don't go breaking your mice, Tootoo wrecks shop