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I think you are asking two unique question here, with different answers. Who was the better Wing? Yzerman Who was the better player? Lidstrom

Stevie Y... Stevie Y...

Of course it wasn't going to get done with this proposal. This proposal should have been made last season so both sides could have started negotiating with realistic starting positions and been able to go through the back and forth process. It will take weeks of back and forth, especially with such complicated legal proposals. Just to type up a proposal probly takes all day.

Back at the blueline Chirping Shea Weber....." Touch Zetterberg or datyuk and you'll look like a Polar Bear from Nunavit"

I'm not sure I understand you not wanting to talk about other leagues that are way more successful than the nhl and the reasons why they are. There are things that other leagues do that the nhl would be smart to adopt and some things that they need to stay clear of. there is nothing wrong with bringing those facts up. I hope that the 10+ yr contracts are a thing of the past.

On the other side of the coin.... Why didn't Uncle Fehr make the first major concession? I guess Uncle Gary cared a little bit more than Fehr. Especially after Fehr was given the last proposal and he chose not to negotiate by saying it wasn't a game of "ping-pong". With one major move, the league has the attention of the fans, and most importantly, the players.

So to sum up... This never had anything to do with the polar bears. The OP was just using that as a jumping off point to rant about his dislike of Tootoo and the contract the Wings signed him to. Sound about right?

It would be extremely foolish to think that Yzerman (or any player for the matter) could have kept a consistent scoring pace in the first half of his career and his second half. I think you are overestimating the impact of him putting his team first. You could probably take any player in history and you will likely see some signficant declines in later years. If Gretzky maintained the same pace in his last 10 years as he did in his first 10 years, he'd have scored 3,674 points, not 2,857. Injury + age, same for Yzerman, is the main reason for decline.

Yzerman, with no doubt. Lets say that you had to have one of these two players to bring your team out of an era of failure, which would do the better job? Without Yzerman the Wings could very well have maintained the gold standard of fail around the league. I love me some lids, but he could NOT have been the spark this team needed to reach success. I draft a rookie Yzerman over a rookie Lids each and every time. Dont forget that Yzerman was a mad mad point producer, scoring 1040 points before Bowman took over and made him a two way player. Had Yzerman remained the pure scorer he was he would have challenged many records. 10 years before 2 way play by Bowman 1040 points, After Bowman, 12 years 715 points. Now I'm not arguing that this helped us win our first cup in forever, just that Yzerman unselfishly changed his entire game for this team, and he could have gone on to break records had he decided to not put this team first. Yzerman is the better Wing and the better player.

fehr let this play right into the owners hand by refusing to come up with another proprosal. now fehr and pa have to work with the owner's offer and face public backlash

None of those players are pure goal scorers, as the stats show.

Agreed. The union has to go through all the details of this proposal, explain it to their hundreds of constituents, let them mull it over, then gauge their reaction before even starting to craft a response. There's no way that could happen overnight. Bettman just has to talk to 30 owners who are businessmen and have plenty of lawyers and administrative staff to help them. Fehr has to talk to hundreds of hockey players. Not quite the same. Though they don't have weeks. The league structured it so they have 9 days to salvage the season. Smart on their part because it's essentially an ultimatum without calling it such. In the light of day the league's offer doesn't sound as rosy as it first did so I'm a little less optimistic. It sounds like they're screwing with HRR again and the form of arbitration they put back isn't really helpful. Fehr is right in pointing out that everything in this deal is worse for the players. And unlike 2004 the NHL hasn't provided compelling evidence why the players should take another big paycut. But the reality for the players is they're going to end up worse off no matter what the deal is. That's just the way it is. Public sentiment won't support them holding out and quibbling over complicated matters like HRR and what percentage split makes financial sense for franchises. The owners hold the cards and this is the players best window for playing hockey this season. As I think McKenzie said on his twitter, Fehr needs to grind out the best deal possible in this window.

As I expected, this deal wasn't going to get done with this proposal. I guess the nhlpa is going to bargain tomorrow. Wish there was more of a sense of urgency out of them.

This had nothing to do with the fact Yzerman shared his prime with the two greatest forwards ever in Gretzky and Lemieux? He would have had the most points in 88 and 89 if not for the two greatest players of all time. Lemieux had 199 points, Gretzky had 168, and Yzerman ONLY had a punie 155 points that season. Yzerman scored over a 100 points a season six years in a row. Had he not shared his prime with those two he would have had a lot more hardware. No he was the 3rd behind Gretzky and Lemieux

Z on a pass from Dats.

why is that ridiculous? the nba has a 5 year max for players signing with their returning teams and 4 year max if they sign with another team during free agency

So let me get this right. You are the only one that doesn't think this is a good step in the right direction? I don't understand what you think the owners should have to give up. should it be more like a 70-30 split for the players or something and then you might be happy? I mean really. 50-50 is fine and fair seeing how bad they both want more than the other ELC up from 3 to 4 years...why not? works for the nfl just fine. UFA up from 7 to 8 years..no comment really contract lenght capped at 5 years..my fav no more awful contract that we all have been complaining about that even our own players on the wings have. salary cap down by 10 million...why not? keep it from getting out of hand like every other sport in the world. my other fav is the 5 year contracts can only vary by 500k per year if i read that right. no more bottoms dropping out at the end of contracts

Picked up some "Zetterballs" at Just Baked in Livonia over the weekend. They're good! ....but I improved them. Sandwich one between 2 graham crackers. It tastes like a combination of s'mores and those Samoas cookies you get from the Girl Scouts. Yum!

You're in the minority there I think, the player's initial offer was just as laughable as the league's, and everything I've read/listened to/talked to repeats the rhetoric that most fans weren't on either side and they saw the attempts from both sides to reach out to them as pathetic and disingenuous. Most fans were on the Fan's side this lockout i.e. "Just get it done and stop disrespecting us". The NHL certainly has gained some PR from this offer, but that's only because it actually is substantial and not just more empty words.

Well if a deal is getting done, obviously not many. Most people said if they're gonna lose the season anyway, it'd be nice to get rid of Bettman too. But we can take a poll again when he locks the players out at the end of this coming CBA.

22 aka too too... Bad joke

Surprised to see no news about Zetterberg's debut in Switzerland. He got a goal and an assist (story in Swedish). Anyway, add this pic to the op: Another good pic...Wings/Zug teammates Z and Brenner hanging out by the Zug locker room:

I am curious what caliber that is in the picture...

Awesome indeed! I wish I could kill more (read: any) polar bears. I hear polar beat meat is tasty. Are you a vegan?