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One thing I think people are overlooking regarding this CBA negotiations is that while this does involve business owners and a union, this really has little to do with typical labor negotiations. For starters, hockey is entertainment. Yes the players get paid ridiculous sums of money to play game. They don't get paid that amount because they are very good at hockey. They get paid that amount because people will pay a lot of money to watch them play. It's why the owners need the players and the players need the owners. Sure, the owners could get rid of all the players and start over, but people won't shell out the ridiculous money they do for NHL games to watch 4th line scrubs play the game. there's already plenty of existing leagues with that level of talent, and ticket prices reflect that. That's the second point, the players are an elite and very small talent pool, and it's reflected in their salaries. That's why these negotiations have more in common with the entertainment industry than the auto industry. Adam Sandler gets paid a boatload of money to be in movies not because he's great at acting, but because a lot of people will pay money to go see him in a movie. Just a point I wanted to make clear because it seems to be getting lost in the noise. I don't hate the owners, but the players generate massive amounts of revenue for the owners. Both sides need each other and should have been able to come to a sensible agreement.

i agree that the owners first offer was insulting. i am just pointing out to the people who say the given the players haven't been given a "single" thing in these negotiations are not correct

I know what you're saying, but I'd hardly call it generous to agree to honor a portion of the contract you've decided not to pay in full, some of which were signed only months ago. My understanding is they tried a similar move in the NBA lockout (which isn't surprising since all 4 major sports are repped by the same law firm in CBA negotiations) and it got quickly shot down. While they NBA players agreed to 50/50, they play in a league with a soft cap and luxury tax and had the owners make a large increase in revenue sharing. All sports are different, but the NBA is a relatively close business to the NHL. And in comparison, the NHL players are getting hammered in this negotiation, in great part due to the sins of the owners. And of the things that benefit players listed in the article: 1) artificially inflate the salary cap in Year 1 so teams don’t have to trade or release players; That helps the owners just as much for teams to get under the cap. And I would hardly call that a benefit to players, other than things could have been much worse. They're having their salaries cut back and the cap further restricted. Not waiving players isn't a benefit offered to the players. It just means the owners didn't make things even worse for them. This is the problem I have with the logic of the league side. Because of the owners ridiculous first proposal, Bettman keeps claiming all they've done is concede. Starting at an insane point and moving towards something reasonable, however, is not really a concession. It just means you've actually decided to negotiate in good faith. Fehr should have started by taking the cap off the table, or increasing player share to 70%. Then he could have "conceded" to allowing the cap be in play again. Or having the percentage come down to 60%. At best, this one's a wash. 2) trade player salary and cap charges in trades (this is something both teams and players have wanted); probably benefits owners more in that they can dump the awful deals they've made. At best, also a wash. 3) eliminate re-entry waivers; I'd say wash, but I may be missing something on how this benefits players more than owners because I don't know all the ins and outs. Teams being able to send players down without potentially losing them is a benefit. 4) Increase revenue sharing with further increases as revenues grow, and the top grossing teams making the biggest contributions (revenue sharing is something Don Fehr is passionate about; wants it so the teams that really need assistance are assisted); This helps the league and unlike anything the owners have proposed, actually addresses the fundamental problem in the league's economic structure. Definitely a wash. 5) Introduction of appeal rights to a neutral third-party arbitrator in cases involving on- and- off-ice discipline (player-proposed wish). This one I don't know much about but I initially read somewhere it would probably be a very rare circumstance. Taken in total, none of those even come close to moving from 57 to 50% in salary and giving up all the contracting rights the players will need to in order to make a deal. Negotiations are give and take. The starting point for who determining who is conceding something is the last CBA, not the first ridiculous proposal the NHL made. Bettman keeps trying this slight of hand and it seems to be working on people.

I keep posting on forums, don't be a dumbass and boycott hockey if it does return this season. The sport is already damaged from all of this, the day hockey returns and Center Ice becomes available i'll buy it as I normally do. Let's face facts, yes this sucks, yes i'm mad, yes many fans are lost, but I still have a love affair with the sport. The word Hockey was in my wedding vows (seriously) and my better half understands that I can't live without it and it's so much more to me than just a sport. We'll get through this, and hopefully there's not too much of a decline in fan following, although i'm pessimistic about that. I just want hockey. Now. Santa if you are reading this, making this wish comes true makes up for the lack of a slip and slide in 1989. Still bitter.

Last time I checked these two were getting their lifetime goals and assists. Players have places where they could go, and many actually went to explore these places. Now, tell me about Detroit Red Wings or Toronto Maple Leafs or any other NHL team. Where is these can go to earn their goals and assists? You guys massively misunderstood the situation. As well as an author of the funny picture above misunderstsood it. Unions bring FEHR, not Bettman. Feel the difference.

I really don't get it. Just because some of us see more of a bigger picture as a whole..more problem then just Bettman , we are just here to argue, we are idiots....we are Buttman dur hur lovers....and we wish bad things to happen to hockey and the players. I'm not sure how me and several others can say it any clearer then we already have. Both sides suck...we hate Bettman....we hate Fehr....We hate the fact that we can't watch our "beloveded" (Ernest T. Bass) Wings.

If you look at every professional sport, the side that is on the losing end of a deal when it expires will strike or lockout. In some instances, the CBA was good for both sides so it was extended. This isn't just in the NHL. The big difference between the NHL and these other sports leagues is the vile hatred they have for each other. There is a history of mistrust and undermining which has chipped away at the relationship between the league and the players. So when the CBA expires, there is no joint talks. There is no working together. There is no compromise. You have two sides who are stuck in a greedy money grab. The players were making over 70% of the revenues before the last lockout. This time around, the NFL and NBA both negotiated to 50/50 splits so it was just natural that the NHL wanted the same split too. I am sure most people would agree that a 57/43 split is only fair if you are making the 57%. If the players were making 43%, how many people would be bitching that the owners were being too greedy? Would the same people who blame the ownership today give blame to the players if they went on strike because they were only making 43%? I doubt it. Will there be another lockout after this one? It all depends on how the deal is working out for both sides. I would say that the odds are good that there would be another work stoppage. The only way this is avoided is if both sides fire Fehr and Bettman, and start fresh. They need new leadership that wants to work towards a common goal. Right now, these two leaders are more about greed, winning, and fighting each other.

wait.. are you saying Santa's not real?

did you also miss the part about how talks fell apart once fehr entered the room?

The juiced ball era. Now the juiced puck era!!! 145 mph slap shots with a puck half as light. Yes!!!!

I agree that we've got a lot of guys coming up who are more suited, whether in terms of skill level or in terms of role players, than is Emmerton. I was just trying to stick up for the guy because usually when there's some debate about whether X player is better than Y player it usually devolved into just bashing the other guy. I don't think Emmerton is that bad, and certainly not as bad as he's been made out to be in this thread. Still, Tootoo is the better player.

Sheahan can't even pass as a TeleTubey...

So many insults; so little time.

Emmerton isn't a bad player, but he doesn't fit in our system at the moment. I think everyone can agree to that standard. Like in similar cases, some players just need to be in another system with another franchise, aka Ville Leino. His role just isn't needed within the bottom six because we have an influx of players that can mimic him. He basically just falls too far into the depth charts. In another franchise he could be that perfect 3rd liner, someone that really needs a bottom 6 playmaker. Unfortunately, we do not.

The Red Wings have been getting younger, particularly at a pretty rapid pace the past two summers. Like Buppy stated, the Red Wings have been picking in the 20's for two decades now so it's tougher to inject quality young talent than say a Chicago did. Fortunately, nobody has scouted nor developed players from later rounds better than the Red Wings. Very few franchises can sustain success without having to go through a rebuild. 20 plus years in an era of free agency and parity is nothing short of impossible. The crossroads are here now for the Red Wings. They are younger and haven't picked high plus other teams have caught up in scouting. We are going to see an adjustment period and it may not be pretty short-term, but you can also already see the evidence that the front office is adapting to the league. We have needed to get bigger, faster and younger for years.

In the last few seasons we have brought up Helm, Abby, Ericsson, Howard, Kindl, Emmerton, and Mursak. We'll add Smith whenever the next season starts, with Nyquist, Brunner, and Tatar all likely in the competition, though they may need to wait a year. Maybe if we'd had the 9th overall pick in one of our recent drafts we'd have someone like Couture. Tougher to find those guys at 19 or later.

Murph has cornered that market.

I'll let that one slide Cameron... this time (but Dats is number 1)

i think phoenix would actually have to have some fans in order to run out of them