Leaderboard

Watching Dan Cleary play instead of him makes me sick to my stomach, every game.

The thing is that the guys who are injured are the guys you could have predicted would be injured. Old, injury prone, or both. Ever think that maybe the reason Wings fans are always griping about man games lost Is because Holland is always icing a team of old guys and guys that can't stay healthy? We can't stop the Quincy and White type injuries. Accidents happen. But Bert, Sammy, and Colo are a joke. Those signings look so bad right now. Those guys were finished when we signed them. Holland needs to be a bit more shrewd in the future.

This is all on Babcock and Holland. Tatar should be on our roster right now, especially since we can't score goals. Instead, they put the same old garbage on the ice.

But these guys aren't playing!! That's my whole argument! We are paying them AND the other guys that are actually filling the roster spot/playing.

Ideally I'd like guys that are edgy, but at the same time know how to contribute. I don't think bringing in any more Tootoo type guys is going to do anything. But look at Columbus, they're a team full of scrappy, edgy guys, who still find a way to produce at the NHL level. Not that I necessarily think that Columbus is some sort of organizational model or anything, but simple that a couple Foligno, Dubinsky, Umberger style players would be helpful. Note to all the argumentative types out there: I am not saying I want to be Columbus nor am I saying that the three guys I mentioned are available, or should be on our radar. I'm just saying a couple guys with their skill set would probably help us out.

I absolutely guarantee that we would regret trading Smith or even sitting him for extended periods of time. As I've said before, this is exactly what people were saying when Fischer came into the league. My lord people here hated him for quite some time. Yes, Smith hasn't been as good as we expected in his first season, but he'll get a lot better. To do that, not only does he have to stay here, but he has to get icetime. Some guys just take a couple of years to really get going. Obviously, especially with our suckage, peoples' patience is particularly short. But we can't be stupid about this - he will be a key part of our future. There's a reason that he's been highly touted.

. Helm has no business even being mentioned on a second line. And that pansy first line would get pushed around like little kids.

Exactly. The Kings are the team I watch as much if not more than the Wings so they're my best point of reference. They've got skill guys but even with their 3rd and 4th lines, they've clearly worked on their zone breakouts time and time again so it's automatic. Everyone knows where to be. Where the outlet is. Where the option is if that's not available. It doesn't always work but even under an intense forecheck they do well and keep it pretty simple.

This. As disappointed as I've been with their play, I will not give up playoff hopes until it is mathematically sung by the fat lady that we're not in. STL up by one over the Yotes at 14:30 of the second...

From the bench? That was Kindl and Kronner out there for the first one. I'm guessing you're thinking of Kindl for not tying up his man's stick. EDIT: Just realized you're talking about Jimmy's two goals. I'd say they both were to blame. Sloppy by Ericsson, total lack of awareness from Jimmy. The last one was all Jimmy. No excuses. But there's plenty of blame to go around if they don't make the playoffs other than those goals last night.

Um yeah. We have the same statistical chances of making the playoffs as Columbus, which is 40%. It's not over.

One of the most frustrating things for a fan or coach watching hockey is when players don't leave it all out there. Often times this season, I have seen some of our players "mailing it in" for many games and not bringing any energy. Franzen has for sure been guilty of this but not surprisingly Cleary has been lacking in the energy department. Young guns like Tatar and Nyquist have something to play for and are bringing their full effort every night. THAT is why they should be in the lineup (especially when we are losing anyways). The only players last night I was really content with was Nyquist, Andersson, and Emmerton - all playing for their future jobs. Tatar is frustrated because he knows he can bring the energy and if enough guys do it - it becomes contagious. Lately Tatar has even looked like he is trying to do too much in GR because he probably thinks he needs to do more to earn a spot - however, in my mind he has already earned it.

Keep playing Cleary over him, it seems to be working. Mismanagement x 1000

So what do you propose to do with brunner. And just curious but why can't tootoo play every night? I honestly for the life of me can't understand why babs healthy scratches him. And ya I get that we have had a lot of injuries and he is a good insurance policy. But we can't afford to have the lineup that I suggested with also including Sammy. We just don't have the cap space for that. Would you lose brunner for Sammy? Cause I sure as hell would not!

Carman, you know better. Defenseman prime is 26 to 34. Kindl and Quincy sucked up until this year. There is a much steeper learning curve for an NHL d. Give Smith time, and he is going to be great. That Anaheim game where he put Ryan on his ass gave me a lot of hope for #2. He just needs seasoning and good coaching. And we have a good coach.

I miss Lidstrom

Exactly! The way I look at it our defense could definitely use help, don't get me wrong. But they are young and with a full offseason I think they will be a lot better. Looking up front we would be WAY better! You'd have Pav, Z, Mule, Clarkson, stalberg, brunner as your main top 6 forwards. That top 6 has size, speed, and great skill! A blend of everything. Then when you look at the third line you got skill, speed, and a whole lot of hunger! Nyquist, Tatar, and helm would be the best 3rd line in hockey! Then the 4th is solid with Anderson up the middle add in Abby and tootoo and it's very physical.

I have defended Holland a lot not only on here but talking with friends, but if Holland resigns Cleary then like Ally ill be on the fire Holland bandwagon!

Big bodies? Like Anthony Stewart (6' 3'', 230 lbs) who whiffed right past Holland's nose on the way through waivers? Oh yeah, he's right handed too. esteef

Here's what I don't understand. Even if we cut all the fat from the forward corps. Let Cleary walk, buy out Bert or Sammy or both, and replace them will all the GR guys who deserve to come up, we're still one of the smallest and softest teams ever to be assembled. You can't have a top six of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Tatar, Brunner, Nyquist, Jarnkrok. They'll get forced to the outside, and wither away playing a perimeter game. So it's pretty obvious that at some point some of these guys are going to have to be moved out and replaced with gritty guys with size right?

I'm really scared Cleary will actually be re-signed. But even if he isn't, that still leaves Samuelsson taking up what should be Tatar's roster spot. Not much hope for Holland buying out Sammy and thus not much hope for Tatar being a full-time Red Wing next season. Can understand he's upset, as is every sane Red Wings fan. I am 100% convinced we'd be in better shape in the standings right now if Tatar was never sent down and got to play over Cleary/Eaves/Miller. Honestly if I was Tatar I'd have a hard time holding in a "f*** you" when Holland comes and says he's getting sent down despite being one of the Wings best players for the 18 game stretch he was up. Imagine after that watching the games and seeing Cleary and Abdelkader in the top 6.

Yeah, where the he'll is Turco when we need him? He was brutal against the Wings!

Everyone keeps saying about how kipper stole the game last night and jimmy should take note... IIRC Howard has played ions Vetter then kipper this year, I mean just look at the stats. Howard has single handedly kept us afloat all season, the forwards were the ones who didn't bail him out this time, I would absolutely keep Howie over kipper any day

Lol now your just reaching to try and find some reason to hate on him. He has to play the shooter which is what he does. Guys on the side of the net need to be taken out by the defense which Kindl didnt do in the least bit. No way he gets over in time even if he plays for the pass. Only reason that doesnt go in is if the shooter misses the net or he puts it into Howard.

They hadn't been born yet. Well, Han was a baby, but Luke and Leia hadn't been born yet.