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Exactly. It's because I respect them so much that I am holding them accountable, I'm holding their feet to the fire. We haven't seen a horrible run like this in almost 25 years. You've got to expect some backlash from the faithful. Our team stands at a precipice: we can hurl ourselves into the void and have confidence to make the bold moves which include adding the right youth, and making the one or two trades that put us right back into the elit; Or we can be timid and afraid to make these moves, and hold on too long to players who gave us their all and have nothing left to giver, and watch this team fall out of contention for years to come. You are right: we are not that far from Cup contention. But you are wrong if you don't see how easily we can deviate from that direction by holding on to long to mediocre depth veterans that have nothing left to give

What's weird about Holland is how he turns any suggestions that he disagrees with into an ideological argument. Nobody has suggest Nyquist is "The Answer," we're just flabberghasted that such a special player did not earn a place on this team with such a great performance in last season's playoffs. It's not a matter of men vs kids (wtf lol?) but putting the best players on the ice.

One problem skippy, those stats tell you nothing, take out outlier games by Franzen where he scored 4-5 goals in one game and then add in Hossa being in a different league defensively and Hossa is the better deal by a country mile.

I think your stuck in the past when there wasn't a salary cap. Sorry buddy can't have all the best players in the world on your team anymore. Why Holland chose Franzen over Hossa is clear, salary. Hossa stats 12-13 40gp and 31 points Franzen stats 12-13 41gp 31 points Hossa stats 11-12 81gp 71 points Franzen stats 11-12 77gp 56 points Hossa 2 season / 102 points Frazen 2 season / 87 points Hossa 5.275 million per season Frazen 3.954 million per season Franzen gets paid 74.9% of Hossa and produces at 85.3% compared to Hossa. Frazen is a much better value than Hossa. Good choice by Holland in a salary cap world. Ohh poor you we only won 3 Stanley Cups during this streak and made the playoffs more consecutive years than any team in the league. We better fire them because Wings fans want a Stanly Cup every single year for the rest of their lives. To bad you can't leave the Wings and root for another team because no other team in the league will satisfy you for more than a couple years in a row. How many times have we been in the Eastern Conference Championship game? How many Stanley Cup appearances? Can you say mis managed teams, OMG we only rank number 1 in all the category's. Oh your right man we have nothing in Grand Rapids we just won the Calder Cup led by our prospects... Yeah that means nothing. Landing the big name free agents you mentioned sure has been working great for Min hey??? Oh wait Min doesn't have the management and prospect pool we do to make those 2 star players worth jack chit. I would love to see you guys endure having a crappy GM who would trade off our team tank and try to build a new team that's only sustainable for a few cup runs and tanks for years again and again. Red Wings have down years, but our down years we still make the playoffs and still have a chance to compete in playoffs just like last year. We also have years where we are cup favorites. Man we got it so bad.

He is right, though. Kids are never supposed to be the centerpiece of a successful team. You infuse the lineup with youth but never rely on them. Here's where it gets interesting. If that is Holland's philosophy, then it contradicts his "we have to roll with what we have" mantra of the past few years. If you promote from within, you are relying on your youth. The best strategy, which as always worked, is create a core of players in their prime, add some veteran presence and insert one or two kids to keep energy up and to gain experience. For all the bashing of Holland re-signing vets and Babcock's stupid lineups, we do ice DeKeyser, Smith, Lashoff, Andersson and Tatar. I don't know how that stacks up league-wide, but that is a lot of kids. It's just not a lot of GOOD kids.

I know it's frustrating not seeing Nyquist up and the Wings struggling but you guys have no reason to call for Babcock or Hollands heads.I'm writing this post due to the ever increasing complaints amongst the Red Wing fans. Detroit is about 2-3 seasons away at MAX from being a cup favorite, AGAIN. They did this while making the playoffs every single year and they likely will again this year too. If you guys can't see that you're choosing the be blind. Not many other teams can pull that off. Mantha is looking like the closest thing you can possibly be from this distance in his development to look like a lock in the future top 6 and will likely be a top 1-2 player. Nyquist and Tatar are likely going to be top 3-7 caliber players. They both work really hard too so they will be hard working guys for those top 2 lines. Datsyuk and Z have a handful of good years left, especially Datsyuk as he will likely be one of those guys to be dominate until almost 40. Even when they do decline they will be an awesome second line combo. Jurco also looks pretty impressive, and if any one of the guys I mentioned don't fully pan out maybe he will and will and replace the guy who doesn't. That's how deep we are. In a couple seasons or so our guys will mostly be developed, some will be more fully seasoned than others but we will have enough seasoned players with the right mix of raw talent injected onto the team. To the defense..... Kronwall has quite a few years left, the guy is a clear cut number one defencemen and he is still getting better. Ericcson isn't going nowhere, the guy is solid and any team would love to have a solid guy on their top 4 like him. Dekeyser seems like the sky is the limit. This guy could be so good for us I don't even think most people realize what we might have in him yet. Just like Lidstrom he doesn't posses god gifted skill. He is super intelligent and is trying to perfect every detail in his game, he could be the closest thing to a Lidstrom anyone in Detroit may see for along time. Only time will tell, but at worst he will be a fantastic guy to have in your top 4. Smith has tons of talent and if anyone has ruled him out already it's a good thing you don't actually have a job in the NHL. Maybe he'll never be more than a 5 or 6 guy or maybe he will wash out of the league. But give him the rest of the season and maybe 20 or 30 games into next season. He may end up as good as he was projected to be. Kindl he is a solid bottom pairing guy anyway you cut it and will still tighten his game up in time. He may not be needed in a couple seasons in Detroit, but if we do need him to stick around he will fit that bill and be a good one for it. Sproul and Quellet are on their way they both already have proven it. Sproul is leading the Griffens defense in scoring who just came straight from the OHL. That is impressive. This kid could be a top pairing guy and the offensive D that we need. Quellet I am not so sure what he will be for us but so far I am impressed. Plug a couple of our D prospects into our current Wings D core and replace of whomever from this current batch didn't cut it and suddenly.... Suddenly wow what a potent defense we have. Bottom Six Forwards. Helm, Andersson, Glendenning, Abdelkader, Miller look at the guys we have. Oh and I forgot to mention Pulkinen and Jarnkrok. Sorry if I can't spell foreign names correctly, not taking the time to look them up. We are going to be really good guys. Count on it. What a fantastic job this organization is doing rebuilding and still keeping our playoff streak alive. This wouldn't be possible if we made trades. Our team is going to be a lot better for a lot longer than it would if we traded multiple prospects for a top player that would only make us "better" not great for a couple years. Holland tried to land big free agents, he couldn't get them and that's not his fault. Sammy and Cleary were signed to help us get to these years that I am talking about not replace these guys, likely signed more for leadership reasons to help develop our players. I'm sure these guys have a great positive impact on our young players by helping them address the areas in their game you only gain from experience and not talent. Just chill out guys and enjoy watching our young talent struggle and find a way to eventually emerge into what looks to be a fantastic future for this team.

I am beyond unhappy about this. DeKe was the player I was watching, every game, he is something special and will just get better. He's young, so I hope he heals fast.

They would have to take Cleary, and Sammy, and no give backs.

It doesn't matter how good Tatar, Nyquist and Jurco are if they're buried for the likes of Cleary, Miller and Sammy. We have the pieces to be a contender but it's a matter of not having faith in management to use them properly. Jurco may not be a Wing in time to play with and learn from Dats.

Re-pect? Is that when Sammy injured his nipple?

There goes Ken's trade deadline acquisition

"Nyquist Getting the Call" Nyquist: Hello? Holland: Hey Gustav, how are things in Grand Rapids? Nyquist: Great, I'm leading the team in scoring and we're first in our division and.... Holland: Yeahhh, that's swell. Say listen, could you give Eaves a message for me? Tell him to pack his bags for Detroit. We're calling him up for Thursday's game. K Thx, later!!!!!

It's like Holland doesn't realize that they're not one day going to magically be great on an NHL powerplay. Kids aren't "the answer" so to speak, but they need a chance to develop into "the answer" eventually.

At least babs changes things up when they are going poorly - holland just rolls with the same stale roster as always.

What you guys have to understand is that this means he is being showcased for a trade. For Peter Forsberg.

Judging by how things go with Babcock, Cleary will be on the top line for less than a period. I cannot fathom why he's even there; it must be clear even to Babcock that Cleary is pretty much done.

Wtf is he saying "kids aren't the answer"? They are the future of the hockey team. Holland sounds like an old man stuck in history. Also, seems like he is declining cognitively with all the long pauses and "errr..ahhh.oooomm..." Hope the man is alright.

I'd rather watch the Wings struggle with the likes of Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, etc, than to suck with the "real men" like Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and Alfredsson. The Wings just don't have the depth that they used to and the luxury of outspending other teams and nursing along players and easing them in when they're 24 or 25. Back in the day, Alfredsson would be a 3rd or 4th line player, not depended upon to be a top 6 player.

Yey for Gus coming back up booo for Cleary practicing on the first line. When are they gunna wake up and smell the coffee that Cleary is a wasted roster space. Hopefully Gus plays his two games here then we waive Cleary when more forwards get healthy.

I hope the crowd gives him a standing ovation. And that he scores 6 goals. In the darkest moment of the season, this news is exactly what we need. Now don't do nothing silly like call him up for one game then send him down again!

Holland almost discredits Tatar and Gus for how many points they have in GR because "they're on the powerplay". He says up here they wouldn't get chances like that because it's something you grow into. Sorry, but if you're willing to stick Sammy and Cleary on our power play those two damn well better be on it when they're up here. Referring to 24 year olds as kids is a problem. There are plenty of teams that have multiple 24 year olds skating on their roster right now.

Should have done it anyway. Might have saved yourself from watching that game lol

RED WINGS......Y U NO WIN AT HOME???

Hey. Guys? And Gals? I know we're all seething with hate, but it's cool that we all seem to be on more or less the same page, for once. *group hug*