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If this happened Holland would be in deep crap with the ASPCA first for bagging all of those pugs and secondly for using them as a weapon.... the poor pugs. For the love of God think of the pugs!!!

To say you would be upset or happy with Holland for getting rid of any player is impossible to assess without more info. For example: If Holland traded Larkin for McDavid, I would be fine with it. (Yes, I realize this would never happen). If Holland traded Larkin for Shattenkirk I would be pissed. Point is, I cant say I would be happy or upset if Holland got rid of Larkin or anyone for that matter as it all depends on the return.

Mantha was very hyped upon being drafted, and for good reason. Very few are as high on him as they once were.. I'm just hoping he's having a good off season of work and comes to camp determined to make the roster. He certainly has the tools to be a difference maker at the NHL level, he's just gotta want it. Little Bert has been one of the more exciting Griffins to watch over the past year. I still think he'll have another year down there though. Maybe be a bottom 6 injury call up this year.

If Holland traded Howard for a bag of pugs and then beat Mrazek over the head with said bag repeatedly until he ended up on IR, I would be pissed.

A line of Pulkkinen-Sheahan-Jurco would outperform a line that features the possession black holes that are Drew Miller and Luke Glendening. Ken Holland and Jeff Blashill and Mike Babcock would say, "Not good enough defensively." And therein lies the problem. This organization fetishizes defending, fetishizes playing without the puck, fetishizes a fundamentally flawed brand of hockey.

I agree with Dabura that Jurco / Pulkkinen are far superior than Miller / Ott, even in a 4th line role. I would much rather have players on the ice that I'm hoping will score, rather than players that I'm hoping won't get scored on... These "defensive players" are good at one thing, and that's providing defense, aka chasing the other team around the defensive zone and blocking a scattered shot... Sure, they're decent penalty killers, but there are so many other options on the team that are just as good or better in that role. I'm not a huge Pulkkinen fan by any stretch, but he isn't the defensive liability that some make him out to be. His giveaway / takeaway ratio is even, and ranks around the middle on the team. His advanced stats on the other hand, are close to the tops on the team in just about every category. His corsi numbers are incredible. I get that it was a small sample size and he may have been up against weaker competition, but even so, I think it's hard to say that he's any sort of turnover machine by those stats... Mantha will be fine. I don't think my expectations have tapered near as much as some and I still expect him to be a very good top 6 winger that will pot 25+ goals a season.

"Toughness" (whatever that is) is not something we desperately need. We didn't beat Anaheim in 2013 because we were "tougher" than them. Chicago didn't beat us in 2013 because they were "tougher" than us. Boston didn't beat us in 2014 because they were "tougher" than us. Tampa didn't beat us in 2015 because they were "tougher" than us. Tampa didn't beat us this year because they were "tougher" than us. Not a single one of these teams was "tougher" than us. We can't score to save our playoff lives, mainly because we lack elite talent at the top of our lineup. That's the big problem we're facing. Neither Miller nor Ott is going to help that cause. Using a "gritty, defensive" fourth line is an outdated strategy. You win with skill and by scoring goals. We need more goals. We need more skill, talent.

Well - there would be scoring. This much is true.

Our fourth line could be a scoring line. There's no law against it. Pulkkinen-Sheahan-Jurco?

As and Cs for the Wings usually go to the best players. The fact the Abby is the next "A" speaks mountains about this teams skill level compared to a the last 20 years. If tradition holds, Neilsen will get it. They gave it to Alfredsson in 2014 instead of Franzen.

It has the opposite effect when you do it with a specific outcome in mind. 😀

People said that about the Hawks after their first cup. Remember big bad Dustin?

I feel like the Hawks are done till they move Kane or Toews unless they change the style of play they don't have the depth anymore Atleast until the cap goes up

Your boy Mrazek got manhandled by Paquette a couple years ago and guess who stepped in?

I believe Larkin and Athanasiou are future cornerstone centermen. At the same time, though, I don't think Larkin or Athanasiou is ready to play the kind of role that Frans Nielsen has been playing for years. This is a case where, in terms of pure positional primacy and experience, the tie truly ought to go to the vereran. Nielsen can be hard-matched against anyone in the league and hold his own. He can center a top PP unit and a top PK unit. He can start a lot of his shifts in the defensive zone -- against elite players -- and still find a way to drive possession in the right direction. He can win key faceoffs. These are things that Larkin and Athanasiou haven't proven they can do as top-six bus-driving NHL centermen. (Which, yeah, is kind of an unfair statement. But it is what it is.) Expecting them to do so, straight away, in 2016-17 helps neither the team nor the two players' respective development paths.

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if he traded away: larkin AA tatar svechnikov hicketts sarijarvi and then kept errorson/smith for some unknown reason. yea, then i would jump off the USS red wing , and swim into open waters, cause i could obviously see the iceberg.

Holland isn't going to trade Tatar for nothing, but if he traded him for an upgrade on the back end, I'm sure most would be happy with that move. If he traded Mantha for Shattenkirk, and Shattenkirk walked after a year and Mantha scored 25-30 goals with the Blues, then I think you'd hear a lot more backlash...

Athanasiou deserves both As lol get it

I have been and will be a huge Holland critic. For not getting a shot at Stamkos, I think he did pretty well on the 1st. I hate the Helm deal, but at least Franzen cap will wash it out come LTIR. I think, for most, Holland needs to make a trade that solidifies his D. Shatt, Fowler or Trouba would be huge for him. Also, if he could find a way to dump E and Howard, that would do wonders for his fan rep right now. As for who is dealt. The two mentioned above and Nyquist would be my choice to go,that would be super in my eyes. Also, if you aren't going to play them, then trade Pulkkinen and Jurco. He would also score some points if he managed to get some sort of return for the guys that seem like will have to go on waivers come October.

...so, Tatar is better, but Nyquist will be kept instead. Ya, that sounds like Holland.

In simple terms, it means that Tatar likes to shoot a lot and scores more often than Nyquist does. Nyquist is a better set up guy. It also means that Tatar does a better job of keeping the puck on the opposing teams net and a better job of keeping the puck away from our net.

Not to the people who run the team.

How many years now have we been saying that for? And how far has it got us? Seriously this team needs a trade of a core player to light a fire under everyone else's asses to show them they're accountable, and to give AA and Mantha a spot to let them know their jobs are on the line if they don't produce

You must be a man or postmenopausal because you are... ...missing some periods Yeeeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!! 😎