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really are we surprised though? we knew this team was going to be rough around the edges without a upgrade on defense and nothing so far has suprised me except are 6 game winning streak i think we overcompensated on that but i still support them even if we go to the basement i think most wings fans are alittle too spoiled and think we need to be a cup contender every year but i truly think our time is up for awhile we will for sure be back but for the meantime enjoy the wins that come and hope for the best no matter what i love this forum

I'll do my best to respond: 1) Hindsight is 20/20, its very rare for teams to just start rebuilding/tanking when they are still considered a top team in the league. 2) I believe that Larkin and Mrazek have superstar potential, I feel that AA has potential to be our 2C (you said he lacks......lacks what?) and Mantha I believe has potential to be a top line winger. I am not sure why you are so hard on Mrazek, I dont believe he is elite right now, but I think he definitely has the potential to be a top goaltender in this league, he shows flashes and has something special. You said it best, our D is junk, yet he still has come off as good as he has, he just needs consistency and better D in front of him. Its very early to tell, but Svechnikov seems like he also has alot of potential, possibly a top 6 guy (too early to tell though). Why does it upset you when people have optimism with our prospects? I get some overrate them, but you seem to always put down our prospects any time you get a chance, is it because you feel a top guy must be drafted in the top 5? On D we are hurting, I think DD can be a very good #2, but we lack a number #1 This is why I really want Trouba. I believe Sproul has top 4 upside, top 6 downside, XO/Marchenko are likely third pairing guys, Russo, Saarijarvi, Cholowski, I dont know too much about them as I have never seen them play, but we will have to wait and see, hence the re-build. D are very hard to draft, most top D are not even drafted high, it usually takes them a lot longer to develop. 3) I get you are not a fan of the rebuild on the fly, but again, the entire concept of it is to keep the team competitive while you re-build. The Wings may fail at the "keeping competitive" part of it, but the re-build part will take a couple years to assess if it was a success or a failure most based on how the guys in #2 end up panning out. If they flop, its a fail. If they succeed, its a success. I really dont understand the debate here. This isnt even me defending it, this is me just saying it like it is. If it was up to me I would be doing things slightly differently and I would be playing more of the kids. 5) I dont like tank jobs, I have seen this fail so many times in my life and for every 1 that succeeds (ie. a Pittsburgh, LA, or Chicago) there seems to be 5 that flop (ie. Arizona, Columbus, Atlanta, Buffalo, Edmonton (pre McDavid), Carolina, Colorado etc.). I wonder how many top 5 picks these teams have had combined since 2006 with NOTHING to show for it, and I dont mean just no cups, but missing the playoffs year after year after year. 6) 100% agree, I'll give the Preds their props. They were my cup pick at the start of the year. I just want to add, you mentioned Babcock earlier. I have never put down Babs as a coach. I have said he is overrated but not because I think he is bad or even not great. I think he is a top coach along with others, but sometimes the narrative on here is that he is an entire level above all (which is overrating him). Babs leaving hurt us, and I wish he was still here as with Babs I think we could be much better and that it would increase the probability of becoming contenders sooner then later.

I dont see how you can say anything has failed. The entire concept of "rebuilding on the fly" is icing a competitive team (which we have sitting tied for the wild card) while re-building for the future. IF the rebuild fails, we will know if a few years if our young guns (Larkin, Mrazek, DD, AA, Mantha, Svechnikov, Sproul etc.) are not able to lead this team back into contention. If you want to argue that this team is not that good in the moment, sure you have a strong argument. But to say anything has failed is way way way to premature. The Leafs also sit with 13 points, does this mean their re-build failed? Of course not. Re-builds take time. As far as the "on the fly" part, well if we finish the season at the bottom of the standings, I will fully admit that aspect failed. If we squeak into the playoffs again, it worked. I have said it a million times and I will say it again, we are not as good as our 6 game winning streak led some to believe, but we are not as bad as our 5 game losing streak is leading some to believe. The reality, RIGHT NOW we are an average team that will likely just get into the playoffs, or barely not make it. I have gone on record in saying I like the rebuilding on the fly philosophy as I do not want to tank and I stand behind that, but I wish the ratio of kids to vets was a little more in the favor of of the kids.

Imagine four lines that could play: Tatar-Larkin-Abby Nyquist-Nielsen-Vanek Athanasiou-Zetterberg-Mantha Sheahan-Glendening-Helm Or some sort of variation of all those players, as long as those 12 are playing.

I'm just disappointed that our GDTs are only 4 pages long and maybe 7 at the most? Fans already giving up on this team?

It's not that we trust Howard. It's that there's people trusting Mrazek and labeling him out to be better than he has been.. we're merely pointing out that it's not the case... that in reality he isn't all that clutch at the moment, and Howard is just the steadier goalie at the moment. Nothing more, nothing less. But if people are going to talk crap about Howard, then others will definitely call Mrazek out if he's underperforming. It's just the way things go. Equal treatment bruh. It would all be nice if people gave Howard the recognition when he does well and not call him out for goals that aren't his fault and then hypocritically try to defend Mrazek when he lets a similar goal in. It's would all be nice if people treated the two goalies objectively. But they don't and so here we are. This will go on and on until Howard is traded lol.

I've been one that disagreed with Blash's usages, but tonight: - Glendening: 9:36, Ott: 9:28, Miller: 6:40 - And Z didn't lead the forwards in ice time. Nyquist did, with Larkin, Neilson also having more. - Also, Ericsson and Marchenko rightfully had the least time on D

When you score 1 goal, you can't blame your goalie. Sorry guys, but you are trying to create a false narrative that validates things you have said in the past. To quote the 3 faces of Bill......debunked brah! Lol.

Buppy, and no offense to you and your opinion, but I'll add "stubborn" to that list. Mantha over Miller may not be a "slam dunk move," but "for the record" putting Mantha in for Drew Miller will generally and probably specifically in the "vast majority of circumstances" increase the likelihood for positive results when it comes to scoring goals. ...and again, I will reiterate: If you are a coach and you put forth a game plan to win games, and you expect results and when you are not getting them, you continue to play them, you ARE part of the problem. Mediocre roster or not. Systems or not. Call their asses out for poor play. Bench them. Coach the damn team.

I'd keep DeKeyser too. I'm not ready to give up on him. He's just not a top pairing player.

true fans stick to them no matter what BANDWAGONERS well...........

#BeCraptastic4NolanPatrick

He can't "like our team." Heres has to know that major trades are needed. You got to deal the 1st rounder (with lottery protection) to get the puck rolling.

Only thing that pissed me off about that contract was losing out on Chychrun.

1. This team needed a rebuild since ******* 2012, when sanct Nick retired and it has only been downhill since then that's a fact 2. Since you keep bringing up these guys which one of them has true star potential? Larkin (maybe), Sproul might turn into a solid third pairing guy with the occasional second pairing time again far from star or even top pairing potential. Mantha needs to get a real chance I think we can all agree on personally I believe he could be a great sniper with great size in a top 6 role down the line. AA has tremendous speed, good hands but lacks I would be very very surprised if he ever turns into a top 6 center. I'm sorry but Larkin alone won't lead this team back into contention. Mrazek ? A guy who still hasn't figured out how to be a consistent starter let's see it first shall we? And now compare that to the young guns on Toronto: Matthews, Nylander, Rielly, Marner (again all top 10 picks) and a few complementary players like Zaitsev, Hyman that's a pretty good start for a rebuild and why did they do it? Because Burkes rebuild on the fly failed and Shanahan knew the team needed a new vision. Will the Leafs make the playoffs? Of course not but their fans are excited about the future as they should be with a lot of highend talent. 3. Put yourself into the shoes of the PR gurus for this team what's easier to sell for the new building. 26 years of playoff hockey with a future that (maybe) has one star or a future with a guy like Patrick, Lilejegren, Foote or Vilardi. How can I say that the rebuild on the fly has failed? Well instead of improving and giving the young guns the chance to sink or swim, Holland priortized the streak and kept signing veterans that don't help in the longrun and still the team got annually worse. If that's not an indication for a failed rebuild on the fly what else is? 4. I agree with the bolded part and it's way too early to make any predictions but the truth is this: 6 Wins against 7 losses right now that's not a good start. Again way too early but it should be a t least a bit concerning for Holland because he is the guy that build this roster. Also I've mentioned going through a win streak, then a losing streak repeat is the definition of an average team but once L > W every team should start thinking about the draft instead of the playoffs. Do I like that system? Well obviously no because it awards being bad but it IS the current system and the only way to build a contender. 5. I know you don't like real rebuilds nobody does but when there are no other options, there isn't much a team can do. This time the Wings don't have the luxury to throw the bank at a superstar (if they become available), nor are they the prime destination they once were...so hoping for a pick in the 15+ range to turn out better than expected because they always do right? is like taking part in high frequency trading you could cash in but in most cases you are going to lose a lot of money. 6. Said it before and say it again the Predators do a tremendous job finding and developing top defensive players why just throw the bank at their scouts and bring some of them in?

Yeah, that loss was totally on Jimmy. He let in two goals on how many shots? How many of those shots that were stopped were quality scoring chances? Well, I won't trouble anyone with actual numbers cuz I know stats can be confusing and whatnot , but needless to say, the number of quality scoring chances that Jimmy stopped was much larger than the number of quality scoring chances the team in front of him actually put up against Gustavsson. Me old eyeballs told me so. ...but please, lets continue the narrative that Jimmy Howard is losing us games. So that I can continue getting daily laughs.

I'm not holding my breath. I feel like trading that pick is going to be a big mistake. Just my opinion though.

Hey wth right? I'm on board with those lines haha.

This team is a drag to watch. Here's my lineup. To hell with these so called vets. Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist Vanek. Larkin, Mantha Helm, Abby, AA Callahan, Bertuzzi, Ott D Pairings Kronwall. Dekeysesr Green, Sproul Oulette, Smith

We can haz Mantha now?

Buffalo, Winnipeg, Toronto, Edmonton what do they all have in common? They are bad but fans LOVE watching them because they have (super)stars and one even a generational McJesus on them. McDavid 1st overall, Nurse (always wanted to have that guy) 7th overall, Hopkins 1st overall, Adam Larsson 4 overall...that's nowadays the range top 10 range where you have to pick because there is no more hidding gems in Europa by being the only team that has their scouts there for the full year. A basement finish and then getting Nolan or Liljegren is exactly what this team needs. Sure, it's not a given but even a 4 overall is still much better than all the positions the Wings have drafted before. There is no shame in admitting the rebuild on the fly has failed. That Nielsen contract is of to a great start *lol* BUT it still to early for any predictions it's not even the 20 game mark right now. But yeah watching the Oilers play is like watching a sleeping juggernut getting closer and closer to wake up and when that happens watch out NHL. Wings need to have something better to sell before going into the new arena than a meaningless streak so a great pick would be a start.

I had a positive outlook with our young players and prospects but I'm starting to realize we got a bad coach and GM and that's going to need to be taken care of first and foremost

I dont think anyone on here was expecting him to come in here and replicate what Datsyuk did in his prime. Most people were expecting him to replace the 2016 version of Datsyuk who scored 49 points. I think he can do that.

I think re-building on the fly can work if it's done the right way. The best example I can give is the Wings in 2008. Of course they still had Lidstrom which was a HUGE help, but that team was completely transformed from the teams of the late 90's and in between they never had to crash to the bottom of the standings. It can work if you give your kids a chance to play with the vets, the issue I have right now with the Wings is the fact that guys like AA, Sproul, XO, Mantha etc. are not getting the ice time they should be getting. I have no issue with having some vets (ie. guys like Helm and Abby), my issue is with guys like Miller, Ott, and E that dont deserve to be on the roster and are not as good as the kids. Make those swaps, pull off a trade for a top D-man (ie. Trouba) and I think this team is in good shape.

Now that Ericsson has regressed back to his norm, there should be no issues swapping XO/Sproul in for Marchenko/E. Our breakout was really strong when Sproul was in, and all Ouellet does is never make mistakes. Let's give these guys minutes and see what they can give us. DK is getting killed all over the ice because the coach is asking too much of him. Kronner looked pretty good for his first game back in forever. Why not run: Smith-Green Dekeyser-Kronwall Ouellet-Sproul? I mean right now the defence can't get much worse, so having 6 D that skate and break out pretty well would help. The coach has this strange idea that you must have forwards/defence specifically for PK. All six of the guys I want playing can PK, you don't need Ericsson and Marchenko for that. This was a problem last year too, we couldn't score or create offense to save our lives and the coach is worried about blocking shots and penalty killing. Yes, those things are important. But they don't ******* matter if you can't score and control the goddamn puck.