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But yet you're willing to take on $9,450,000 between Johnson and Killorn for the next 3 years for only a measly 2nd round pick, That's pretty much giving Tampa a free get out of cap hell pick right there. Why would any sane GM give them a break?

As far as players I've mentioned before goes, all I really mean is that they are really good, ideal 2C players. If there were such thing as an elite 2C, it would be them. But there is no such thing as an elite 2C, because as we agreed, being elite has nothing to do with lineup placement. When Malkin is looked back upon down the road, nobody is gonna mention the fact he played on the "second line". He'll simply be known as an elite NHL center. Likewise with Tavares and Draisaitl. In the end, what bums me the f*** out is that the Wings currently have ZERO elite players. While I expect that to change when guys like Seider and Raymond become impact NHLers, right now we have none. Let's hope Seider can become Konstantinov but 5" taller.

And do a favour to tampa?And f*** up our rebuild? Lets finish 8-10 bottom spot instead of last 1-4? And get no sweetners in the process? No thanks tampa’s f***ed if teams were willing to just take those guys for free it would have happened already ... you just won a cup thanks to the gm your trying to make a move with , stfu and pay yzerman or move along and convince melnyk to somehow pay more money out of his pocket Future assets that will be ready in 7-8 yrs if they even make it? We’re rebuilding now We can go sign hoffman right now 5-7mill x1 yr if we really wanted to get players who dont suck so bad and it would be a better move and probably fetch us a 1st at the deadline We shouldnt be taking anyone with 3-4 yrs attached to their contracts unless we get a nice return back

Every player is of a talent level where you could project what their ideal position would be on an ideal roster based on their career production. On stacked teams, many players play below their capabilities. On s***ty teams, many players have to play above their capabilities. Less than one minute of career average ice time separates Crosby and Malkin. Both guys play ~20 minutes per game. Both players get first line minutes. So yeah, you look at the lineup sheet and you see Malkin on the "second line". But their "second line" plays just as much as their first. In the end, it's a silly thing to debate, just like calling players an "elite 2C" is silly. in the end. A player is either elite or not, regardless of where they play. If a team has the depth to play elite players on second lines or second pairings, they just straight up got it good.

So basically we're taking a 3 year contract in Killorn and a 4 year contract in Johnson for a measly 2nd round pick. Yet received a 2nd round pick for 1 year worth of Staal. So ask yourself this question why Yzerman would make such a dumb trade like that? You're basically taking on long term assets for little to no compensation in a flat cap world that's totally ludicrous.

plays with a long stick like spezza

Zadina and Hronek both recalled from their loans to the Czech league today. Gotta figure the NHL and Player's Association will be announcing a start to the season before long.

Literally nobody has EVER said we'd take them on for nothing.

Why does the contract matter? It's not going to negatively impact the team in any conceivable way. Are you that concerned about Chris Ilitch's bank account? Bad contracts only matter if they stop you from re-signing good players or landing free agents. That's why Tampa is in this mess, for instance. Detroit will have MORE than enough money to do any and everything they want to do in free agency or to re-sign players.

1. As you've pointed out many times there is a pandemic and flat cap. That means that prices are depressed because teams are not generating revenue and are more reluctant to spend. In a few years, when things are more normal, teams may be willing to acquire bigger contracts for their Cup runs. 2. Again, I've said they're probably marginally overpaid but I don't think by much. You've gone on and on over the years about how a good contract awards players a million dollars for every ten points they score. By your own standard Killorn is basically not overpaid at all, and Johnson is slightly overpaid now but wasn't when his contract was signed. Assuming more minutes for Johnson means he'd score another 15-20 pts. a season he wouldn't be over paid either. 3. The value of dealing with Tampa is that you're getting picks/prospects AND useful players. Any other "cap dump" is probably not going to end with the Wings getting good players and certainly not players of Killorn or Johnson's caliber. If Yzerman made three separate trades and got a 2nd round pick, a depth center capable of bouncing around the middle six, and a 2nd line winger that would have led our team in goals last year, all while giving up NOTHING, people would have licked his balls.

I never said they would be untradeable in a few years. I question their value at that time. If it's low now, what makes you think it will be any better in a few years, going from the best team in the league to the worst team in the league? I think everyone would agree that if we signed Johnson and Killorn to their current contracts today, they would be overpaid, and pretty bad signings. No, they're not huge compared to other contracts around the league, but they are huge compared to the contracts that Yzerman has been willing to sign so far in the rebuild. I'm aware we have some bad contracts falling off. That doesn't mean we should sign more bad contracts (unless we're being heavily compensated). OR don't take the deal from Tampa, let the Stanley Cup champs, divisional rivals remain in cap hell, and call up another GM, and take on an actual cap dump. We still get the future assets (maybe even more), we don't improve our team (aside from how much it has already improved this offseason), hurting our draft odds, and we don't have to worry about whether or not Johnson and Killorn will transition / age well... Let's swap out our old bad contracts with new bad contracts. Smart.

Comparing this situation to what we received for Staal is fair, because that's exactly the type of trade Yzerman should be pursuing. We don't need the team to improve in the short term with Johnson and Killorn. We need the team to improve in the long term with future assets. BriseBois isn't willing to pay up a 1st, plus, plus, to get out of cap hell? Fine, move onto the next team that needs to shed cap space. There are many other options out there. Again, we don't have to make a move. Tampa does. As much as you like to mock, Yzerman does have full control.

That's assuming they still have value in a few years. A lot of players tend to fall off quite a bit into their 30's. Johnson passed through waivers a couple months ago. Tampa are trying to dump him now and no team wants him. He's not going to gain value. He would probably end up being a buyout candidate before the contract is up, assuming Seattle doesn't take him in the expansion draft. Killorn may have value at the trade deadline in a few years, but I doubt it would be for anything more than a 2nd round pick. I have no interest in taking on two huge contracts, to improve the team in the short term, but likely hurt the team in the long term. This team is not in a position to be adding Johnson and Killorn, unless we're being heavily compensated. I don't think a single person is opposed to taking on one or both of Johnson / Killorn. The debate isn't whether or not we should take them, but rather, what is a fair return. Would you take a late 2nd round pick? A late 1st? Or are you in agreement with pretty much everyone else and think it would cost (a lot) more?

Maybe you would, but no sane GM would.

A first for 10 mill cap space ? No thanks

I think it's too early to start a 2021 Draft Thread just yet, but in any event sign me up for this guy. Kent Johnson, center at Michigan, is playing at a point per game pace as a freshman. Oh, and he's absolutely sick. Reminds me a bit of Jason Spezza.

So according to your definition there are a handful of 1st line centers who are actually 2nd line centers despite playing on the first line AND there are 2nd line centers who are actually 1st line centers despite having other, better, centers playing on the 1st line and being higher on the depth chart them they are? Makes sense. Or (and hear me out) maybe if you center the 2nd line you're a 2nd line center?

All of those players are elite, and all of them play 2C. So yeah, they seem like the EXACT definition of "elite 2C" to me. Apparently your definition of "elite 2C" is a guy who plays less, and scores less, than Jordan Staal. Lol.

Larkin isn't an elite 2nd center by that definition. BUT @krsmith17 has assured me Larkin is a definite 1C. Oh my who to believe.

Weren't you the one who was just asking for an adult opinion?

I don't doubt that for a second...

This may be a little rich, but yeah, imagine thinking a 1st round pick would suffice taking those two contracts...

We'll find out when it happens. In the meantime, I don't expect Seattle to get a goalie with a MAF pedigree. I don't expect Francis, or their coaching staff, to do as good of a job as Vegas did. I also don't expect Seattle to find the number of gems in the expansion draft that Vegas did. I also don't expect Seattle to gel as well as a team as Vegas did. I just think there's too many things that have to happen just right to repeat Vegas' success, and I think Seattle repeating what Vegas did is unlikely, though certainly not impossible.

Tampa need to move players. Detroit doesn't need to add any players. Yes, Yzerman is in the driver's seat... BriseBois doesn't have to make a trade with Yzerman, but if he wants to sign his RFA's, he does have to make some trades. Detroit are one of the few trade partners these teams trying to shed cap space have. If BriseBois doesn't like Yzerman's ask, cool. Move on to the next team.