For the Kenny apologists, what Holland move would change your stance o

[shocky2002 36]

..trading Tomas Tatar?

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

..trading Tomas Tatar?

you mean Nyquist.

[krsmith17 7,191]

What does trading Tatar have to do with the "Holland apologists"?...

[LeftWinger 5,176]

I have been and will be a huge Holland critic. For not getting a shot at Stamkos, I think he did pretty well on the 1st. I hate the Helm deal, but at least Franzen cap will wash it out come LTIR.

I think, for most, Holland needs to make a trade that solidifies his D. Shatt, Fowler or Trouba would be huge for him.

Also, if he could find a way to dump E and Howard, that would do wonders for his fan rep right now.

As for who is dealt. The two mentioned above and Nyquist would be my choice to go,that would be super in my eyes. Also, if you aren't going to play them, then trade Pulkkinen and Jurco. He would also score some points if he managed to get some sort of return for the guys that seem like will have to go on waivers come October.

Edited July 4, 2016 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 5,176]

i also think if he could make a deal for Barrie, that may score him some points...but if any of these trades include Mantha or AA, I think that would bury him even deeper.

I'd also like to see him try to get Joe Morrow (RFA) into the organization.

[shocky2002 36]

What does trading Tatar have to do with the "Holland apologists"?...

Im talking about what move Kenny would have to make for his supporters to finally turn on him.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Holland isn't going to trade Tatar for nothing, but if he traded him for an upgrade on the back end, I'm sure most would be happy with that move.

If he traded Mantha for Shattenkirk, and Shattenkirk walked after a year and Mantha scored 25-30 goals with the Blues, then I think you'd hear a lot more backlash...

[luvmnger 125]

if he traded away:

larkin

AA

tatar

svechnikov

hicketts

sarijarvi

and then kept errorson/smith for some unknown reason.

yea, then i would jump off the USS red wing , and swim into open waters, cause i could obviously see the iceberg.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yeah, Hicketts and Saarijarvi are far better than Smith...

[LeftWinger 5,176]

Smith will be a UFA after the season, he may not need to be protected...

Even if he was left unprotected, and claimed by Vegas, he could just go UFA July 1 and re-sign here. Not sure how UFA status will work, but I am sure the selecting team wouldn't want to claim anyone who may not be interested in siging a contract with them.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Re-signing Helm and Miller and delaying the youth movement.......wait.

[kliq 3,763]

To say you would be upset or happy with Holland for getting rid of any player is impossible to assess without more info.

For example:

If Holland traded Larkin for McDavid, I would be fine with it. (Yes, I realize this would never happen).

If Holland traded Larkin for Shattenkirk I would be pissed.

Point is, I cant say I would be happy or upset if Holland got rid of Larkin or anyone for that matter as it all depends on the return.

[Internet.Unknown 422]

If Holland traded Howard for a bag of pugs and then beat Mrazek over the head with said bag repeatedly until he ended up on IR, I would be pissed.

[mackel 784]

If Holland traded Howard for a bag of pugs and then beat Mrazek over the head with said bag repeatedly until he ended up on IR, I would be pissed.

If this happened Holland would be in deep crap with the ASPCA first for bagging all of those pugs and secondly for using them as a weapon.... the poor pugs. For the love of God think of the pugs!!!

[chaps80 1,591]

Pretty sure Holland hasno intention of moving Howard at this point, at least from an article I read. He said they will be going into the season with Mrazek as the number 1 goalie, but he's happy to still have Howard, as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on Mrazek yet, and likes having Howard's veteran presence behind him to help out. Mentioned that Mrazek is only 24 and doesn't want him to have to handle 70 games. Or maybe he's just resigned to the fact that he's stuck with Howard and is trying to put some kind of positive spin on it. Who knows I guess.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Pretty sure Holland hasno intention of moving Howard at this point, at least from an article I read. He said they will be going into the season with Mrazek as the number 1 goalie, but he's happy to still have Howard, as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on Mrazek yet, and likes having Howard's veteran presence behind him to help out. Mentioned that Mrazek is only 24 and doesn't want him to have to handle 70 games. Or maybe he's just resigned to the fact that he's stuck with Howard and is trying to put some kind of positive spin on it. Who knows I guess.

I'm more inclined to think the above.

[gcom007 1,465]

Pretty sure Holland hasno intention of moving Howard at this point, at least from an article I read. He said they will be going into the season with Mrazek as the number 1 goalie, but he's happy to still have Howard, as he doesn't want to put too much pressure on Mrazek yet, and likes having Howard's veteran presence behind him to help out. Mentioned that Mrazek is only 24 and doesn't want him to have to handle 70 games. Or maybe he's just resigned to the fact that he's stuck with Howard and is trying to put some kind of positive spin on it. Who knows I guess.

Given that he more or less lost any trade partners a week before he went positive about keeping Howard, I'd say he's resigned to the situation. He openly said trading him would be best, and it absolutely would be for the Wings and for Howard, but that doesn't appear to be in the cards right now. Hopefully someone will need a goalie at some point next season and we can move him before likely losing him for nothing in the expansion draft.

[WingedWheel91 271]

Yeah, Hicketts and Saarijarvi are far better than Smith...

They may not be better at this point, but they are certainly more valuable as 19/20 year old prospects - plus they are contractually protected.

Smith is going be 28 next season, and has never scored more than 19 points in an NHL season...As an "offensive defenseman", I wouldn't expect a line up of GM's looking to trade for his services... People can argue advanced statistics until they're blue in the face (those same analytics that claim Parise is a better first line forward than Ovechkin), but I think most people understand he is what he is at this point.

All in all, I'd much rather keep (2) teenage prospects who play the same position over a 28 year old who hasn't produced, has an injury history, and is soon to be a UFA.

[krsmith17 7,191]

No, they're not even close to being "more valuable" to this team. The likelihood of either Hicketts or Saarijarvi ever panning out to be anything more than depth / minor league players in this organization is slim.

I could really care less what you and several other Smith haters have to say about him as a player, but for a player that controls the play as much as he does, and is easily a top 4, he is very valuable to any team, regardless of his point totals. Certainly more so than two unproven prospects, that may or may not ever make the NHL...

The only thing I will agree with is that "GM's aren't lining up to trade for his services"... That doesn't in any way mean he doesn't hold value though, and in a trade a lot of GM's would be interested in Smith.

[WingedWheel91 271]

No, they're not even close to being "more valuable" to this team. The likelihood of either Hicketts or Saarijarvi ever panning out to be anything more than depth / minor league players in this organization is slim.

I could really care less what you and several other Smith haters have to say about him as a player, but for a player that controls the play as much as he does, and is easily a top 4, he is very valuable to any team, regardless of his point totals. Certainly more so than two unproven prospects, that may or may not ever make the NHL...

The only thing I will agree with is that "GM's aren't lining up to trade for his services"... That doesn't in any way mean he doesn't hold value though, and in a trade a lot of GM's would be interested in Smith.

lol believe me, I have more things to be in life than a "Brendan Smith hater" - I've actually met him and can tell you he's a nice guy, which I'm sure you would know based on the hoola-hoops you're doing for him...must be a relative.

"krSMITH" - I should have known...

The facts are the facts... He's an offensive defenceman who's never scored more than 19 points in a season. He gets injured. So are we winning games because Brendan Smith is out there "controlling the play" but not really scoring any points? I'm sure you believe this... But again, we aren't really winning either.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yes, because when I speak of liking or disliking a hockey player, I'm talking about them as people outside of the game... No, I'm not related to Brendan, and unfortunately I've never had the pleasure of meeting the guy. I'm not basing my opinion on him, on whether or not he is a "nice guy" though... My opinion is based purely on whether or not he is a good hockey player, and despite what many "haters" think, he is definitely that.

"Facts are facts"? This is the second time you brought up Smith's "injury history"... Please tell me when he's been injured? I remember a few years ago he missed some time with a shoulder injury, other than that, he is a very durable player that rarely ever gets injured...

As I've said before, Smith provides a ton of offense, just that those numbers have yet to translate into point totals. I think it has a huge deal to do with the lack of points from individual players as a whole than anything else. He leads our defense in corsi% and scoring chances created (passes that set up shots on goal), as well as a ton of other advanced stats... He is a very important player to this team, and to suggest that two unproven prospects that may never play an NHL game, are more valuable to the organization is ridiculous...

[Jacksoni 418]

I was about to just sit back, eat some popcorn and watch you two fire back and forth about Brendan Smith but I guess I want more answers than crossfire.

He (Smith) sure is puzzling. I can't place him where he's at. 28 years, but "plays 25" (my subjective thought). Skilled, but moronic. Aggressive in a nice way but also with a temper. Has the potential upside to be a league top offensive defenseman, but at 28.. Hm.

What I would like to know is what Mike Babcock has to say about Brendan Smith today, in retrospect. That would clear up some conceptions for me I believe.

[kickazz 5,459]

I was about to just sit back, eat some popcorn and watch you two fire back and forth about Brendan Smith but I guess I want more answers than crossfire.

He (Smith) sure is puzzling. I can't place him where he's at. 28 years, but "plays 25" (my subjective thought). Skilled, but moronic. Aggressive in a nice way but also with a temper. Has the potential upside to be a league top offensive defenseman, but at 28.. Hm.

What I would like to know is what Mike Babcock has to say about Brendan Smith today, in retrospect. That would clear up some conceptions for me I believe.

Probably not much because he (Babcock) gave Smith very sheltered minutes. And Blashill does the same. Smith happens to take advantage of those sheltered minutes and does well. That's exactly why you'll never hear an argument for Smith becoming a top 2 defenseman.

Edited July 5, 2016 by kickazz

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Im talking about what move Kenny would have to make for his supporters to finally turn on him.

is there such thing as a Holland apologist? I mean there are a lot of sky's falling gloomers...but I think most of us are critical of him and few are constructive about it.

If this happened Holland would be in deep crap with the ASPCA first for bagging all of those pugs and secondly for using them as a weapon.... the poor pugs. For the love of God think of the pugs!!!

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm sick of people constantly saying how Smith (or whoever) gets "sheltered minutes". Sure a coach may try to get an offensive defenseman out against lesser competition, but that only works at home when you have the last change. What happens in the other 41 games on the road when you don't have last change? The opposing coach is trying to get all of his offensive weapons out against the same player that his coach is trying to "protect"... Bottom line, every players opponents as well as teammates overall skill level balances out over the course of a season...

Smith seen more 5on5 play against JT Brown than any other player in the league last season... Not exactly an offensive dynamo. However, guess who's number's 8 and 9 on that list? Bobby Ryan and Steven Stamkos, at nearly 18 minutes against both... Are you saying that Blashill is trying to match Smith up against these two guys? Of course not. That's the strategy of the opposing coach...