Athanasiou Signed 1 year $1.4 mil

[puckbags 863]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

If every other team in the league would offer him $2.25-3M, they would have by now with an offer sheet. Like has been mentioned, RFA's (especially ones without arbitration) have very little leverage. You can't crack because a young player is demanding more money. It sets a bad precedent in future negotiations. I think Athanasiou would far exceed any contract he ends up signing, but that's the way bridge contracts should work. Winnipeg didn't cave last year with Trouba, and they ended up agreeing on a 2 year deal. AA would be smart to do the same. Trouba ended up missing the first quarter of the season. Hopefully that isn't the case with Athanasiou...

AA made the threat of walking to the KHL and played his hand. The problem for his camp was that NHL teams, owners and GM's don't buy into the    " i'm going to leave for Russia" threat because they know that the last place a young north american kid wants to spend his winter is Russia.  At first I blamed Holland for this situation but he knows he has all the leverage. If AA really liked that Russian money that much he would've signed a contract there and bought a nice little condo in some obscure Russian city. The longer he sits the worst it gets for future negotiations.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't really think people should be pissed at Holland or Athanasiou for this situation. Holland's one remaining strength is his ability to sign his RFA's to cap friendly deals. It shouldn't be any different with a player like AA. Athanasiou thinks he's worth more than the current offer, and he likely is, but as an RFA, he has to realize that he has little to no leverage. He's not going to the KHL. I doubt he ever even gave it any serious thought. It was an empty threat and Holland knows that. I think Athanasiou will come back with his tail between his legs, and accept the current offer, or something very similar in the near future. I just hope that when he does, he comes in motivated as ever and puts together a great season, works on his defensive game, while continuing to dominate offensively...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

If every other team in the league would offer him $2.25-3M, they would have by now with an offer sheet. Like has been mentioned, RFA's (especially ones without arbitration) have very little leverage. You can't crack because a young player is demanding more money. It sets a bad precedent in future negotiations. I think Athanasiou would far exceed any contract he ends up signing, but that's the way bridge contracts should work. Winnipeg didn't cave last year with Trouba, and they ended up agreeing on a 2 year deal. AA would be smart to do the same. Trouba ended up missing the first quarter of the season. Hopefully that isn't the case with Athanasiou...

Teams rarely give players offer sheets because they know the original team will match.  It's a waste of time

[kickazz 5,459]

50 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Teams rarely give players offer sheets because they know the original team will match.  It's a waste of time

We can't even match

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Teams rarely give players offer sheets because they know the original team will match.  It's a waste of time

Yeah, teams don't usually offer sheet for that reason, but in this case, we wouldn't be able to match unless other moves were made.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I think Holland should give AA Hudler and Brunner's phone numbers. He is a still a 3rd liner at this point, only played one full season so far. Its a fair offer, sign it, round out your game, and cash in 2 years from now when you have proven you are worth more. If he was going to KHL he would have signed by now. He knows the Wings cant pay him that amount. 

[Jacksoni 418]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think Holland should give AA Hudler and Brunner's phone numbers. He is a still a 3rd liner at this point, only played one full season so far. Its a fair offer, sign it, round out your game, and cash in 2 years from now when you have proven you are worth more. If he was going to KHL he would have signed by now. He knows the Wings cant pay him that amount. 

I have thought about this situation and the stance of the stakeholders. I predict 2 million x 2 years for AA, give or take 10% and the deal should happen fairly soon. I can entertain bets if someone differs wildly.

 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

 

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

So $600,000 apart something has to give.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Jacksoni said:

I have thought about this situation and the stance of the stakeholders. I predict 2 million x 2 years for AA, give or take 10% and the deal should happen fairly soon. I can entertain bets if someone differs wildly.

 

 

I agree completely. AA has no leverage and we all know KH doesnt overpay until you're up for UFA status.

[LeftWinger 5,036]

Trade Sheahan, give AA $2.2M for two years and let's get rolling. 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

19 hours ago, kliq said:

I don't think this has anything to do with the cap situation, I think it's about not creating a precedent in regards to RFA's. We only have around $966,000 to spend and Holland has offered AA I believe 1-9-2.1mil meaning he obviously will make a move once he gets AA signed. 

 

I see where you are coming from with the first sentence, but what makes you put him at 2.25-3mil? I am not even arguing you, just wondering what your comparable's are. 

Well the thing is this old model of thinking is not going to fly. At some point the team has go figure out who the new core is and pay them to keep them. If I were Ferris I'd tell the Wings you knew the situation before but let's meet in the middle your offer is 1,9 we want 3 how about 2,4 and be done with it, else trade my client.  

Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on whether AA is worth it or not I'm just totally surprised by the lack of longterm thinking. I'm not even sure if AA is part of the core but low balling a young talented player is a game the Wings in their current state can't afford to play and if they do at least get something back for the guy. 

[kliq 3,763]

4 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

Well the thing is this old model of thinking is not going to fly. At some point the team has go figure out who the new core is and pay them to keep them. If I were Ferris I'd tell the Wings you knew the situation before but let's meet in the middle your offer is 1,9 we want 3 how about 2,4 and be done with it, else trade my client.  

Just to be clear, I'm not commenting on whether AA is worth it or not I'm just totally surprised by the lack of longterm thinking. I'm not even sure if AA is part of the core but low balling a young talented player is a game the Wings in their current state can't afford to play and if they do at least get something back for the guy. 

At the end of the day its a business, and AA having no leverage is just what comes with not being arbitration eligible. Ferris can demand whatever he wants, but Holland has all the leverage here. Sure AA can leave eventually when he becomes a UFA, but if Holland wants to trade him at some point (which I think he does) you want that contract as team friendly as possible to maximize your return. If you are a player like McDavid, then sure the player has leverage because the fear of losing a player like that would be devastating but when you are a 3rd liner with one season under your belt, its advantage team.

Also I dont think 1.9 is low-balling, it may be a bit less then he is worth, but I believe comparable contracts are around the 2.1 - 2-3 range.  Low-balling would be if Holland offered 1.1mil.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

10 minutes ago, kliq said:

At the end of the day its a business, and AA having no leverage is just what comes with not being arbitration eligible. Ferris can demand whatever he wants, but Holland has all the leverage here. Sure AA can leave eventually when he becomes a UFA, but if Holland wants to trade him at some point (which I think he does) you want that contract as team friendly as possible to maximize your return. If you are a player like McDavid, then sure the player has leverage because the fear of losing a player like that would be devastating but when you are a 3rd liner with one season under your belt, its advantage team.

Also I dont think 1.9 is low-balling, it may be a bit less then he is worth, but I believe comparable contracts are around the 2.1 - 2-3 range.  Low-balling would be if Holland offered 1.1mil.

You very right, AA has no leverage but this can also set a bad precedent for Mantha and Larkin (whom I'd argue are the 2 most talented current young Wings on the team by far) they also have no leverage so does that mean they should take a low ball offer? Well a team can "force" them to do it and then face the consequences, players wanting out or signing for much much more when the leverage situation takes a turn.

I know a lot of Wings fans are high on AA but the difference between 1,9 and let's say 2,3 doesn't really decrease/increase his value outside from his speed he is your everyday young, talented but somewhat rough winger every team seems to have and their trade value isn't as high compared to centers and defenders.

But hey I really don't care that much either way it just urks me that everyone saw this situation coming and yet the highly paid Wings front-office stuff didn't. Yeah it's a business first but more often than not the it's a business thing only comes up when the team has the leverage when it comes down to a player signing an extension, the word "team friendly" is coming up more often than not. To be honest I'm surprised AA hasn't signed in Russia  yet, he could make 3 mill no taxes, play for the Russian cup and in the Olympics

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

12 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Trade Sheahan, give AA $2.2M for two years and let's get rolling. 

Yup that's pretty much what i was thinking, Deal Sheahan and meet in the middle with AA give him $2.2 million for 2 years and get this team rolling.

[Juklitz 85]

"Sorry, Danny. I just cant part with the 600k"

"But Ericsson, Quincey got 4 milion + each, and I outproduce all of them"

"Ok Danny"

....

 

[kipwinger 8,621]

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I agree completely. AA has no leverage and we all know KH doesnt overpay until you're up for UFA status.

Paying a guy what he's worth isn't "overpaying".  This drives me crazy.  Regardless of whether he's an RFA, he's worth the money.  Ken Holland is lowballing this kid because he's put himself into a bad cap situation.  I understand that Holland CAN offer a guy less than he's worth if the player is an RFA, but that doesn't mean he should.  If he's made a competitive offer, as opposed to an insulting one, AA would be on the team right now.

Also, Anybody who thinks that the Red Wings "can't" match an offer sheet is nuts. The minute AA signed an offer sheet the Wings would match and then trade Sheahan (as is being rumored). We're talking about 600k here.  The league is doing Holland a  favor here because now he can keep an asset he clearly doesn't want to trade AND he gets to lowball a kid on an RFA offer.  But don't let that fool you into thinking he "can't" match an offer sheet.  He can, pretty easily. 

[Dabura 12,228]

AA hasn't proven that he's worth $3M. He's played less than a full season, he really needs to work on the defensive side of his game, his possession numbers were brutal last season, he hasn't shown he can really hold his own in a demanding role and consistently win matchups. $1.9M x 2 is completely fair and is more or less market value for an AA type player. He/his agent is trying to play chicken with Holland and Holland isn't budging, which is good, because AA has no leverage and you can't set a precedent that a kid with no leverage can make a demand and get what he wants "because KHL" and because he scored some goals in a sheltered role.

I keep saying it: AA hasn't proven anything, hasn't really earned anything, has a hell of a lot to prove. Right now, he's basically a third-line winger. It's up to him to show he's more than that. Take the offer, sign the deal, and show the organization that your next contract will have to be a big one.

[kickazz 5,459]

Guy has yet to play a full season

Edited September 22, 2017 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

35 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Paying a guy what he's worth isn't "overpaying".  This drives me crazy.  Regardless of whether he's an RFA, he's worth the money.  Ken Holland is lowballing this kid because he's put himself into a bad cap situation.  I understand that Holland CAN offer a guy less than he's worth if the player is an RFA, but that doesn't mean he should.  If he's made a competitive offer, as opposed to an insulting one, AA would be on the team right now.

Also, Anybody who thinks that the Red Wings "can't" match an offer sheet is nuts. The minute AA signed an offer sheet the Wings would match and then trade Sheahan (as is being rumored). We're talking about 600k here.  The league is doing Holland a  favor here because now he can keep an asset he clearly doesn't want to trade AND he gets to lowball a kid on an RFA offer.  But don't let that fool you into thinking he "can't" match an offer sheet.  He can, pretty easily. 

You're off base on this one. 

For one, even to give the $1.9 offer he has to move Sheahan (or do something similar). Doing that would actually give us ~$2.3 for AA if we replace Sheahan with Bertuzzi (or ~$2.1 with Svech), without making any other moves or any LTIR besides Franzen. It doesn't seem likely that the cap situation is the main issue, or even necessarily an issue at all.

Looking around the league at comparable players puts the market value at right around $1.9 for 2 years; just what we're offering. Unlikely that is a coincidence. Is he worth more? Maybe, depending on how you want to define "worth", and I would guess we'll end up settling a little higher. But we are absolutely not lowballing him, much less insultingly so. You like AA, so you're letting your emotions cloud your reasoning. 

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

22 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, teams don't usually offer sheet for that reason, but in this case, we wouldn't be able to match unless other moves were made.

They'd match, then pray for the LTIR fairy to visit

12 hours ago, kliq said:

At the end of the day its a business, and AA having no leverage is just what comes with not being arbitration eligible. Ferris can demand whatever he wants, but Holland has all the leverage here. Sure AA can leave eventually when he becomes a UFA, but if Holland wants to trade him at some point (which I think he does) you want that contract as team friendly as possible to maximize your return. If you are a player like McDavid, then sure the player has leverage because the fear of losing a player like that would be devastating but when you are a 3rd liner with one season under your belt, its advantage team.

Also I dont think 1.9 is low-balling, it may be a bit less then he is worth, but I believe comparable contracts are around the 2.1 - 2-3 range.  Low-balling would be if Holland offered 1.1mil.

There were 2 offers.  2x$1.9 and 1 year at $1.4.  That's a lowball.  Leverage or not, AA should be getting more than either of those deals, that's been the market for similar RFA's.

[Dabura 12,228]

30 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

There were 2 offers.  2x$1.9 and 1 year at $1.4.  That's a lowball.  Leverage or not, AA should be getting more than either of those deals, that's been the market for similar RFA's.

$1.9M x 2 is market value. $1.4M was maybe a bit on the low side, but that's how these negotiations open. One side starts too low, other side starts too high.

[kliq 3,763]

37 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They'd match, then pray for the LTIR fairy to visit

There were 2 offers.  2x$1.9 and 1 year at $1.4.  That's a lowball.  Leverage or not, AA should be getting more than either of those deals, that's been the market for similar RFA's.

What are your comparable that define what the market is?

[Dabura 12,228]

16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

https://www.nhl.com/player/justin-abdelkader-8471716

RFA deals =/= UFA deals

[frankgrimes 1,836]

3 minutes ago, Dabura said:

RFA deals =/= UFA deals

Maybe it's breaking news to some but the RFA market is changing and it's changing drastically. Í just refuse to believe that the Wings wouldn't offer a better contract if they had the capspace to do so maybe I'm wrong and it's still the old way of expecting some sort of discounts in order to have the honor to wear the winged wheel. But AA is not in the wrong here he thinks he is worth a bit more and if he gets it good for him. Connor Brown whom I'm a huge fan of is making 2,1 million per year maybe if the relationship is sour the Wings could trade AA for him.