Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

7 minutes ago, Jersey Wing said:

Just listening to Holland, oy. "I know how to handle a rebuild, I'm very familiar with how it happens yada yada yada..."

My job entails patience. A lot of it. It also requires forward looking. If Holland indeed knew about rebuilding as he's claiming somewhat arrogantly imho (definitely trying to cash in goodwill chips here), This would have started long before now or last year. Mr. Holland, you let it hit bottom before starting. Calle Jarnkrok, that was the time for it to begin in earnest. You fell in love with a streak, not the future. He'd look good now with our kids. Anybody even talking about that streak anymore?

 

It is what it is at this point but Holland today was annoying the wee out of me.

Holland has whiffed bad on this whole thing.  We have gone on winning streaks when positioned for best odds at the end of the last 2 seasons.  Dahlin + Hughes vs Zadina + Zegras is the difference between us climbing back into the hunt for a cup and us climbing back in the hunt for the playoffs.  What everybody is missing in this "rebuild" is what the rebuild can accomplish.  If we are constantly drafting high end 2nd line / 2nd pairing talent, then we aren't going anywhere in the playoffs anyways.  We need game changing talent to get us deep in the playoffs.  

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

5 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Holland has whiffed bad on this whole thing.  We have gone on winning streaks when positioned for best odds at the end of the last 2 seasons.  Dahlin + Hughes vs Zadina + Zegras is the difference between us climbing back into the hunt for a cup and us climbing back in the hunt for the playoffs.  What everybody is missing in this "rebuild" is what the rebuild can accomplish.  If we are constantly drafting high end 2nd line / 2nd pairing talent, then we aren't going anywhere in the playoffs anyways.  We need game changing talent to get us deep in the playoffs.  

Yeah but AA really went on a good rip there eh? We'll always have that to dream about on those long February 2020 evenings. Shouldn't you be happy? 

 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

40 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Holland has whiffed bad on this whole thing.  We have gone on winning streaks when positioned for best odds at the end of the last 2 seasons.  Dahlin + Hughes vs Zadina + Zegras is the difference between us climbing back into the hunt for a cup and us climbing back in the hunt for the playoffs.  What everybody is missing in this "rebuild" is what the rebuild can accomplish.  If we are constantly drafting high end 2nd line / 2nd pairing talent, then we aren't going anywhere in the playoffs anyways.  We need game changing talent to get us deep in the playoffs.  

Totally Holland's fault.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Jersey Wing said:

Just listening to Holland, oy. "I know how to handle a rebuild, I'm very familiar with how it happens yada yada yada..."

My job entails patience. A lot of it. It also requires forward looking. If Holland indeed knew about rebuilding as he's claiming somewhat arrogantly imho (definitely trying to cash in goodwill chips here), This would have started long before now or last year. Mr. Holland, you let it hit bottom before starting. Calle Jarnkrok, that was the time for it to begin in earnest. You fell in love with a streak, not the future. He'd look good now with our kids. Anybody even talking about that streak anymore?

 

It is what it is at this point but Holland today was annoying the wee out of me.

Calle Jarnkrok is a 3C. He's literally not a big loss at all and would not have had any significant impact to our current situation. Same with Janmark. 

As much as everyone freaked out when those guys were traded, it hasnt changed anything. We made the playoffs both years (which was the goal) and neither "prospect" turned out to be a difference maker anyway. So I dont get the animosity over it.

Truth be told, I just heard someone on NHL network the other day comment on the Wings 25 year playoff streak. It is a thing whether fans want to agree with it or not because it was a significant accomplishment. The streak was older than my wife. She, like a lot of fans, had never seen the team miss the playoffs their entire lives. That's not "meaningless".

Edited April 8, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[SwedeLundin77 460]

It's simple, they need to find a way to trim the fat off of this roster:

Move Abdelkader (not going to happen because it's a terrible contract)
Move or buyout Ericsson
Move or buyout Daley
Do not re-sign Vanek
Hope that Kronwall decides to retire (unless we can move one of the D I mentioned above)
Try and move Helm

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, Jersey Wing said:

Just listening to Holland, oy. "I know how to handle a rebuild, I'm very familiar with how it happens yada yada yada..."

My job entails patience. A lot of it. It also requires forward looking. If Holland indeed knew about rebuilding as he's claiming somewhat arrogantly imho (definitely trying to cash in goodwill chips here), This would have started long before now or last year. Mr. Holland, you let it hit bottom before starting. Calle Jarnkrok, that was the time for it to begin in earnest. You fell in love with a streak, not the future. He'd look good now with our kids. Anybody even talking about that streak anymore?

It is what it is at this point but Holland today was annoying the wee out of me.

I mean...I get it. On some level I even kind of agree. But let's be fair.

• Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Hronek were all drafted during the final years of The Streak
• Time has revealed Jarnkrok to be a middling player
• The Streak was probably a shared baby, not Holland's own personal vanity project; it seems fair to say that Mr. I had no appetite for a rebuild and neither did any of the other shot callers within the organization
• Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall was a pretty competitive core right up until Datsyuk left. Holland had pulled off a rebuild-on-the-fly before and I'm not sure we can say he was definitely wrong in seeing if he couldn't do it again. It didn't work out, but, as a thought experiment, imagine a forward corps boasting Datsyuk and Zetterberg circa 2015 and Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Hronek circa 2019

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Holland has whiffed bad on this whole thing.  We have gone on winning streaks when positioned for best odds at the end of the last 2 seasons.  Dahlin + Hughes vs Zadina + Zegras is the difference between us climbing back into the hunt for a cup and us climbing back in the hunt for the playoffs.  What everybody is missing in this "rebuild" is what the rebuild can accomplish.  If we are constantly drafting high end 2nd line / 2nd pairing talent, then we aren't going anywhere in the playoffs anyways.  We need game changing talent to get us deep in the playoffs.  

I'm pretty sure Holland abused the emergency recall system in order to get half the Griffins roster into our lineup (all at the same time). I'm also pretty sure all the "deadweight" players -- Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, DeKeyser, Nyquist, Nielsen, Green -- have gotten lots of ice time.

Holland knows the value of a Dahlin and a Hughes/Kakko, but he also knows the value of not becoming a Buffalo or an Edmonton. And EVEN THEN, even with all of his principles and all of his talk of "winning culture," he STILL magically swapped out half the Wings' roster for half the Griffins' roster. Point being, again, the dude fully understands. He's iced really bad teams for three straight seasons now. The teams just weren't quite bad enough.

Mind you, we could've finished 31st last season and not won the lottery, so "The teams weren't quite bad enough" is barely even a thing.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

FYI, I'm using Jarnkrok more as a time stamp than a player. 

[Dabura 12,207]

48 minutes ago, Jersey Wing said:

FYI, I'm using Jarnkrok more as a time stamp than a player. 

Truth be told, I've always been irrationally bitter over that trade.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm pretty sure Holland abused the emergency recall system in order to get half the Griffins roster into our lineup (all at the same time). I'm also pretty sure all the "deadweight" players -- Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, DeKeyser, Nyquist, Nielsen, Green -- have gotten lots of ice time.

Holland knows the value of a Dahlin and a Hughes/Kakko, but he also knows the value of not becoming a Buffalo or an Edmonton. And EVEN THEN, even with all of his principles and all of his talk of "winning culture," he STILL magically swapped out half the Wings' roster for half the Griffins' roster. Point being, again, the dude fully understands. He's iced really bad teams for three straight seasons now. The teams just weren't quite bad enough.

Mind you, we could've finished 31st last season and not won the lottery, so "The teams weren't quite bad enough" is barely even a thing.

Quiet. Everything is entirely Holland's fault and no amount of basic reasoning will convince me. 

It's his fault we lose, but it's also his fault we don't lose enough. 

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Euro_Twins 4,477]

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Calle Jarnkrok is a 3C. He's literally not a big loss at all and would not have had any significant impact to our current situation. Same with Janmark. 

As much as everyone freaked out when those guys were traded, it hasnt changed anything. We made the playoffs both years (which was the goal) and neither "prospect" turned out to be a difference maker anyway. So I dont get the animosity over it.

Truth be told, I just heard someone on NHL network the other day comment on the Wings 25 year playoff streak. It is a thing whether fans want to agree with it or not because it was a significant accomplishment. The streak was older than my wife. She, like a lot of fans, had never seen the team miss the playoffs their entire lives. That's not "meaningless".

Your wife sounds hot

[Akakabuto 1,751]

I never got it why people thinks that it was Holland who wanted the streak alive or not wantning to go into rebuild. 

The owners set the course. Its their team. If they want to try to keep winning the GM’s doesn’t get to say otherwise. A GM’s jobb is to execute the orders from owners and if they don’t do that and, say, plunge the team into rebuild without consent of the ownership they will lose their job and probably not find a new one in the NHL. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Only on LGW could people ***** about Helm, Abby, Glendening, and Nielsen and openly pine for Calle Jarnkrok.  Lol.  That dude sucks.  He's never scored more than 16 goals in the NHL on a playoff caliber team.  In retrospect losing Patrick Eaves in the same trade was a MUCH bigger loss, yet somehow people think Jarnkrok is some devastating f*ck up by Holland.  You're all a bunch of petulant children. 

[LeftWinger 4,963]

I have a weird feeling that this off season is going to be majorly disappointing.

Yzerman cannot go without a pay check for a year, so unless Holland or Jimmy D plan to not be here next season, I'm betting Yzerman gets hired elsewhere. 

Lottery is today, let's all cross our fingers that this starts the off season in a great direction.

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I have a weird feeling that this off season is going to be majorly disappointing.

Yzerman cannot go without a pay check for a year, so unless Holland or Jimmy D plan to not be here next season, I'm betting Yzerman gets hired elsewhere. 

Lottery is today, let's all cross our fingers that this starts the off season in a great direction.

Why not?

[gcom007 1,465]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Only on LGW could people ***** about Helm, Abby, Glendening, and Nielsen and openly pine for Calle Jarnkrok.  Lol.  That dude sucks.  He's never scored more than 16 goals in the NHL on a playoff caliber team.  In retrospect losing Patrick Eaves in the same trade was a MUCH bigger loss, yet somehow people think Jarnkrok is some devastating f*ck up by Holland.  You're all a bunch of petulant children. 

100%, particularly on Eaves. 

40 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I have a weird feeling that this off season is going to be majorly disappointing.

Yzerman cannot go without a pay check for a year, so unless Holland or Jimmy D plan to not be here next season, I'm betting Yzerman gets hired elsewhere. 

Lottery is today, let's all cross our fingers that this starts the off season in a great direction.

Oh yes, I’m sure Yzerman is really hurting financially. 

[Dabura 12,207]

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Only on LGW could people ***** about Helm, Abby, Glendening, and Nielsen and openly pine for Calle Jarnkrok.  Lol.  That dude sucks.  He's never scored more than 16 goals in the NHL on a playoff caliber team.  In retrospect losing Patrick Eaves in the same trade was a MUCH bigger loss, yet somehow people think Jarnkrok is some devastating f*ck up by Holland.  You're all a bunch of petulant children. 

No one here's actually complaining about Jarnkrok, kipper. Come down off your high horse, take a nap, and come back to us when you're refreshed and revitalized and not all dingus-like.

[Dabura 12,207]

P.S. Kakko sucks.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

I'm sure Yzerman is not hurting financially, but his bills, lifestyle, quality of life is fat different than any of yours. You cannot look at his salary and compare it to your life. Money ca not stop coming in whoever it is. Bills, taxes, etc...no matter his past earnings, he isn't going to remove money from savings, investment accounts, etc...to wait for Holland. 

I have plenty of money in my 401k that would allow me to take a year off, but do I want to withdraw the $70,000 estimated it would take to "live" for a year without income? We don't know what kind of money he needs live per year. His normal expenses per year might top $5M, you just don't know. I'm sure he would prefer not to have to go without pay just because Holland regards himself as the 2nd coming when it pertains to the Wings.

Edited April 9, 2019 by LeftWinger

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

Am I the only one that doesn't really give a crap if:

a) Yzerman goes elsewhere

b) we draft 6th

c) do nothing of significance on July 1st

d) don't make any trades

?

I hope Holland sticks around and finishes this. Continues to be patient. 

Also, I have a feeling the rebuild will be decided by this team's ability to strike gold with one of these multiple 2nd round picks. 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm sure Yzerman is not hurting financially, but his bills, lifestyle, quality of life is fat different than any of yours. You cannot look at his salary and compare it to your life. Money ca not stop coming in whoever it is. Bills, taxes, etc...no matter his past earnings, he isn't going to remove money from savings, investment accounts, etc...to wait for Holland. 

I have plenty of money in my 401k that would allow me to take a year off, but do I want to withdraw the $70,000 estimated it would take to "live" for a year without income? We don't know what kind of money he needs live per year. His normal expenses per year might top $5M, you just don't know. I'm sure he would prefer not to have to go without pay just because Holland regards himself as the 2nd coming when it pertains to the Wings.

Yzerman made over $65M in his playing career. That's not including anything he's made in endorsements and post playing career. He's made $2.4M per year as general manager of the Lightning. He's NOT hurting for a dollar... There's no way his annual expenses is anything close to $5M... He definitely owns everything, and has minimal bills / payments. He's also 53 years old (54 next month), and getting to the age where most people start counting down the days to retirement. Besides all that, he has stated that he's moving home to spend more time with family. I'm sure he'd be quite content to take a step away from the game for a year... Not saying that's what he will do, just that he could do it...

[LeftWinger 4,963]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yzerman made over $65M in his playing career. That's not including anything he's made in endorsements and post playing career. He's made $2.4M per year as general manager of the Lightning. He's NOT hurting for a dollar... There's no way his annual expenses is anything close to $5M... He definitely owns everything, and has minimal bills / payments. He's also 53 years old (54 next month), and getting to the age where most people start counting down the days to retirement. Besides all that, he has stated that he's moving home to spend more time with family. I'm sure he'd be quite content to take a step away from the game for a year... Not saying that's what he will do, just that he could do it...

and this would be awesome! Let's hope it happens, or he steps in to our organization early!

[krsmith17 7,191]

24 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really give a crap if:

a) Yzerman goes elsewhere

b) we draft 6th

c) do nothing of significance on July 1st

d) don't make any trades

?

I hope Holland sticks around and finishes this. Continues to be patient. 

Also, I have a feeling the rebuild will be decided by this team's ability to strike gold with one of these multiple 2nd round picks. 

a) I'd love to see Yzerman come back to Detroit. But unlike most, I'm also okay with Holland staying in Detroit. It killed me when he went to Tampa 9 years ago, so I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't bother me to see him go to another organization again.

b) I'll be a little disappointed if we don't win one of the three lottery spots, but I know the odds are against us, so it's whatever. But when it comes to dropping from 4th to 6th, it wouldn't really bother me much at all. I think regardless where we draft outside the top 2, we're getting a really good player.

c) I hope we don't do anything of significance on July 1st. I think we should stay far away from any and all free agents.

d) I'd like to see a trade or two, but I'm not expecting any, so whatever.

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really give a crap if:

a) Yzerman goes elsewhere

b) we draft 6th

c) do nothing of significance on July 1st

d) don't make any trades

?

I hope Holland sticks around and finishes this. Continues to be patient. 

Also, I have a feeling the rebuild will be decided by this team's ability to strike gold with one of these multiple 2nd round picks. 

 

You're not the only one.  And I don't even think we need to "strike gold".  We need our top pick this year to turn into a first line/first pair talent, and we need Veleno, Zadina, Ras, Berggren, McIsaac, Cholo, and Lindstrom to become various degrees of good.  Add a couple free agents in a year or two and we're fine.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

8 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You're not the only one.  And I don't even think we need to "strike gold".  We need our top pick this year to turn into a first line/first pair talent, and we need Veleno, Zadina, Ras, Berggren, McIsaac, Cholo, and Lindstrom to become various degrees of good.  Add a couple free agents in a year or two and we're fine.

Yeah maybe. I still think we need that #1D. And unless we're still bottoming out in the next year or two in drafts with D heavy top 10 options, we're going to have to find that player outside of the top 10 or in the 2nd round (Jossi/Keith style)