kipwinger

Thats where it gets messy. Sid the Kid said he's willing to lower his contract and only take a 550,000 raise inorder for them to build a championship team around him. He's willing to take the paycut inorder to win. Parise will not make more than Crosby.

That's a real nice sentiment from Crosby and all, but considering the last two years that he's had, and the big question mark hanging above his head for the forseeable future, I doubt he was going to get much of a raise anyway.

I've always had the sort of love/hate thing with Doan watching him play.  He plays on the edge, and often over it.  But the guy's a competitor and has strapped his team on his back time and time again in the playoffs.  That's hard not to like.

I have to say though, I lost respect for him not for his antics in the handshake line with LA, but his whining in the lockerroom about the officials being against the Coyotes.  He sounded like a bitter fan, not the captain.  I have a feeling Tippet used an "everybody is against us" mentality to motivate his team, but it might have created an air of victimhood too.  

It's one thing for Smith, who's just another insane goalie, but I was just surprised to hear Doan say things like that.

You're absolutely right about this, and to be honest, I was very shocked that Doan had anything to do with that garbage given how he'd always played the game.  He was definitely a lot of things, but I never thought I'd see him be a whiner.

All that said, he's one of the most intense hockey players on the ice.  A serious competitor, a leader, and a guy clearly willing to go to the wall for a cup.  Come playoff time, I think he's one of the hardest players to play against in the league, and we had two straight years of watching him demolish our guys to prove it.

Everyone around here always says we need to get tougher without sacrificing the ability to play the game.  If that's how you feel then Shane Doan is your guy.  I don't know if he's really exploring the market, but if he is, I'd give him good money on a short contract if I'm Kenny and hope to pry him away from Phoenix for a year or until they get this ownership thing sorted out.

I honestly think that Shanny gets in first ballot if he wasn't currently working in such a high profile position for the league.  Something tells me that some members of the selection committee either don't really like the league office, or perhaps don't want to appear as if they're sucking up to the league office.

Until he logs minutes in the NHL, I'm not equating anything he's done in Europe to potential NHL points. That's pretty fair I think. The Wings rolled the dice on Leino and Brunnstrom, both of whom had some great numbers in their respective leagues, and neither panned out.



I don't know why you're being dramatic, I just simply see a lot of parallels with the last two undrafted European players the Wings have tried to reclaim. I hope he excels, but recent history says otherwise.



All I said was that the situation reminded me of Ville Leino. You used "stillborn". That was an association you made, not me. I don't know if it was directed at my comment, but I just find it curious that the Wings are hyping this player so much without even seeing him play a single NHL shift. Maybe it's a tactic they're using to drive prices down for top line forwards. Who knows

Ah yes, the infamous hype machine.  Look at all the hype everybody: “Can he adjust and play the North American game? We’re going to give him every opportunity. He’ll be a top-six forward to start with us and see where he goes with us.''  And then there's this, "I went to the World Championship and watched this guy practice every day, I watched him play,'' Babcock said. “I stood in the hallway and let him walk by me. Now, does that mean he’s any good? We think he is. Have I been wrong before? Many times".

Yes the hype is overwhelming, if by hype, you mean measured optimism mixed with a heavy dose of professional caution. Hype is when you compare Sidney Crosby fresh from the CHL, to Wayne Gretzky.  This is not hype, you're just being a Negative Nancy.

Also, it's not like the Wings have never sent guys straight from the European leagues to the NHL before.  You know, guys like Konstantinov, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk.

An NHL player aquired for zero costs in assets?  Oh the humanity!

No s***.  Makes you wonder what an acceptable FA acquisition would look like if this one is already considered stillborn by some.

If Howson is honest enough with himself about the quality of his development program then maybe this was the right move.  Think about it, if you KNOW for a fact that you absolutely blow at developing talent, then why make a move that gives you more players in need of more development?  Typically, the first and second picks can walk directly onto an NHL team and play without any development whatsoever.  I'm not suggesting Howson is a good GM or anything, but if you know you can't help guys reach their potential, then you'd be foolish to draft on potential.

My only gripe is that there are no longer links to Red Wings stories from the various media sources.  I liked having all the wings headlines in one place.  Other than that I like it.

Kovalchuk is their best player
Parise played 18:45 and 19:45 per game in his most productive seasons, still considerably more than Franzen has ever played
A lot of people are talking like we desperately need a sniper who can consistently put the puck in the net and are all gung-ho about getting Parise for $8 mill but want to get rid of Franzen (not to mention one of the few forwards on the Wings with size) at $3.9 mill who scores more frequently than Parise.
We would be hearing all about how how he only scored 1 point and was -5 in 6 SCF games  here, if it was for the Wings but it wasn't

In Franzen's most productive season he averaged 18:06 in ice time and scored 59 pts.  In Zach Parise's most productive season he averaged 18:46 and scored 94 pts.  Surely you're not suggesting that Franzen would have scored 35 more points that season if he'd had 40 more seconds of ice time per game.

Parise's 69 points is an absurd stat because it doesn't take into consideration quality of line mates,  quality of competition, offensive vs. defensive zone starts, how much they play etc.  It's a  s*** stat.
Goals per minute played is a more informative stat than goals on it own. Parise scored as many goals as he did in part because of the ice-time he got; more than any Wings forwards and a lot more than Franzen or Hudler. If Franzen and Hudler played as much they would score more than they did
Unlike Hudler, Parise always played with NJ's best
I brought up the stat because people here knock Franzen for consistency and frequency of scoring goals and talk like Parise is going to be some messiah. he scores goals less frequently than Franzen or Hudler, he is another small finesse forward like we have so many of on our team and in the system and he is probably going to be way over payed.

lol.  

1.  So here's a link to Zach Parise's career stats.  You'll notice Parise's best seasons have come when he was getting less ice time.  In seasons where his ice time is comparable to what Franzen usually gets, the differentials in their production are actually MORE in Parise's favor.  Presumably because when you're a veteran, the captain of the team, and it's best player, you actually have to play defense too so you're on the ice in defensive situations.  

2.  People knock Franzen because he doesn't work very hard, not because he doesn't score enough.  If we knocked Franzen for not scoring enough then we'd have to knock everyone else for the same thing, because he's the leading goal scorer on the team.  

3.  Good luck in your future endeavors, please let me know once you've figured out how to successfully turn lead into gold.

if you look at only even strength, its:

Semin scored a goal every 58 mins of ice-time this year
Parise scored a goal every 63 mins of ice-time this year
Hudler scored a goal every 47 mins of ice-time this year
Franzen scored a goal every 63 mins of ice-time this year

while any statistic gives only a partial view, i find it funny that hudler was the most productive scorer 5v5 out of the 4. sure it all depends on linemates and other factors, but i just find it funny people continue to sell him short. (pun intended)

I don't think that this stats sells Hudler short.  It actually elevates him and Franzen to the level of Zach Parise, which they clearly aren't.  I'd say it actually gives them more credit than they deserve.  And this is coming from a guy who has repeatedly defended Hudler and Franzen on this forum.

Franzen and huds were also on the wings. I think either parise or semin in our line up scores goals every < 47 mins of ice time.

Still I agree, it's a pretty cool stat. Not something you look at all the time.

I was being sarcastic.  The stat is absurd because it doesn't take into consideration quality of line mates, quality of competition, offensive vs. defensive zone starts, etc.  It's a s*** stat.  But by looking at it you would have to conclude that Hudler and Franzen score more often then Zach Parise.  Except Parise's 69 pts. to their 50 and 56 pts. (respectively) would suggest otherwise.  A stat like that actually penalizes a forward who draws tougher matchups and who frequently is put on the ice in the defensive zone (e.g. is defensively responsible and therefore a better player).  

What's I'm trying to say is...it's a real neat stat.

Not a Hudler hater,nor Semin fan,but motivated Hudler is capable of scoring 25 goals and yet motivated Semin has scored 40 goals not so long ago,so If I must pick one of them I'd rather take Semin for around $5mil. than Happy Huds for around $4mil.

I agree.  Plus, at 6'1 and 210 lbs. Semin is ALWAYS going to be harder to play against than Huds.  Also, how much of Semin's under performance was himself, and how much of it was Washington's mismanagement.  I've said before and I'll say again, Bruce Boudreau was a terrible coach for young players because he's not the type of guy that forces players to work within a system to achieve results.  As a result Washington squandered one of the most talented rosters in hockey year after year after year.  Get Semin onto a team where he's expected to do a particular job and is held accountable, and I believe he'll be just like the long list of players who have learned how to play a full game in Detroit.  Not too long ago Dan Cleary was accused of taking shifts off and not playing defense, so was Bertuzzi, and Hossa.  They all did a complete turn around once they came here.  No reason to believe Semin couldn't do the same.  I consider it a reclamation project, and one that could really pay off, if the reports are true and Semin would consider a pay cut to play here.

Obviously there are question marks with the guy, and he's no guarantee, but he might well be worth the gamble if a more consistently proven scoring winger (Parise) can't be acquired.

Edit:  Sniper much?

This article brings up an interesting point about NFL vs NHL playoffs.

"To win the Superbowl a team must be the better team through 44 minutes of play.
To win the Stanley Cup a team must be the better team through a minimum of 16 hours of play."

My link

This article is awesome.  I wish I could send it over to the guys at "PTI" or "Around the Horn" and then ask them why they get so worked up over such a garbage game.

This sums up exactly how I feel about the NFL and why I feel that the NHL is second to none (especially the NFL)  in professional sports in terms of quality, competitiveness, and athleticism.  Enjoy.

http://sportsillustr.../nfl/index.html

Holy generic thread title Batman!

esteef

With informative and well thought out posts like that it's no wonder that you've made it past 7,000 posts already.  My hat's off to you, you truly are a Hall of Famer.  

Kip