kipwinger

Don't worry Frank and co. Mike McKee will be here smashing faces in about 5 years or so...

Sure he will.  Lol. 

Unless you're one of those who consider Mantha and Mrazek as sure-thing future stars, that package is not all that different from Carter to CBJ, nor too different from the Kessel or Seguin deals (value-wise). Not really that much more than Ott gave up for Ryan either.

 

Sure, it's not uncommon for a good player to go cheaper than that, but it's not that outrageous for a young star either.

 

I still say it's just not the kind of package Edm would be looking for. They already have plenty of young players with uncertain futures. It's not a typical sell-everything-for-kids rebuild situation. I could see something like the Nash deal, couple good roster players in their prime to balance out the lineup, plus a little extra. Or I could see a Seguin-type deal where they try to get a proven veteran star. Or maybe try to land a stud goalie.

That's a legit point, and admittedly I do consider Mantha and Mrazek sure-thing future stars.  I base that assumption off two things, A) they've excelled at every single level they've played at, and B) our organization is excellent at prospect development.  I can only compare them on their body of work so far, and in every way they've been exceptional. 

I heard last time the Pens were there Crosby stood up and yelled "me! Me!"

Oh, I get  it, because he's a homosexual.  Hilarious. 

In all seriousness, atta boy Dano.  You are and will continue to be a class act. 

Something like this ?

 

Did the original head in this picture belong to George W. Bush?  Because it seems like it should have.

Another thing Kip, Nyquist is on par to be just as good as Hall this season.  He has more goals than Hall this year, more PP goals, and is only a few points behind him.  If we are trading value for value/potential, Nyquist for Hall should be a straight up trade.  And Edmonton would be getting the deal because Hall makes $6M and Nyquist is still sub $1M, granted he is due a significant raise, but not to $6M.

I stand corrected on the "uncoachable" comments.  Dreger made them, and while they may or may not be true, I've relied on Dreger's analysis in the past and would be a hypocrite if I ran you down for doing it now. 

As far as Nyquist vs. Hall.  Hall is, and will continue to be the better player.  The fact that they momentarily have similar point totals doesn't really mean too much.  I like Nyquist fine, and I see no reason to run him down, but he's simply not the better player. 

 

yeah your right, but both factors obviously come into play when teams are handing out contracts they can't afford.

That's the point, they could afford them (because the government was giving them money).  Once the government could no longer subsidize the league, teams had to rely on their profit margins, and they couldn't.  But it would be noted that the teams who signed NHL talent to big contracts are NOT the ones that are folding.  CSKA Moscow (Radulov) and SKA St. Petersburg (Kovalchuk) are pretty healthy franchises.  It's the small market, periphery, teams that can't pay the bills.  And no matter what contracts they've got on the books, those teams were going to sink because they don't make enough money to cover costs.

Mantha = Untouchable. Period.  Sure he is unproven at the NHL level, but he is the real deal.

 

 

Helm, Smith, Pulkkinen should be enough for a guy who is "uncoachable" in EDM.  Helm could be a leader there and would instantly be the best defensive forward.  Smith is still young enough to have untapped potential, especially in a larger role, and Pulk is one of our top prospects and has been touted as a future 2nd liner in the NHL.

 

What makes me laugh is, every time someone talks about trading Helm (for example) people here scream, NO, why trade your best penalty killer, the best bottom 6'er in the league, etc...etc... He is so great at his position, he is invaluable.  Yet, when his name is tossed around in acquiring something we need, in the same breath they say Helm would not get us anything is trade.  Either he is one of the best defensive forwards in the league or he is our scraps.  He has huge trade value, and guarantee 29 other teams would love to have him.  I understand your love for him, but he is either good or bad. I believe he is good enough to package and get something we need, and with Sheahan and Glendening, Helm is very tradable.  We wouldn't really miss him too much.

I agree with a couple of your points.  Largely that Mantha is untouchable, and the previously mentioned trade packages are overkill.  But I disagree with a couple of things. 

1)  When has Hall every been considered "uncoachable" and who made the claim?  I've never heard that.  As far as I knew, he was the only one of their young kids who didn't have an attitude problem.  I've heard that about Yakupov, RNH, and Eberle (to a lesser extent), but not Hall. 

2)  Just because other people were offering too much, doesn't mean that you aren't offering too little.  Taylor Hall is a very good player.  You'd certainly have to give up a bigger piece than Helm as the cornerstone of any deal.  Probably Nyquist + Smith + middling prospect would get it done.  Helm as a center piece in that trade would get you laughed off the phone. 

Can't wait for the inevitable, self righteous, and long winded interview Mike Commodore gives on this latest development lol. 

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...lapse-1.2877879

 

Looks like a number of teams will be folding next season. 

 

Theres a report in the article that a player hasn't even been paid since October.

 

Looks like the crazy contracts handed out to players are coming back as a negative for the league..

 

Good news for the NHL?

Pretty sure the collapsing Russian economy resulting from Putin's disasterous foreign policy blunders has more to do with it than their penchant to overpay.  Particularly considering the league was subsidized by the government (currently dealing with sanctions and declining foreign investment). 

Or it was bad contracts.  Either way. 

Call me crazy but I think trying to trade for a potentially elite player is a good thing. Hall is 23 years old and scored 80 points in 75 games last season. He is not the reason Edmonton is horrible, that's on managment. I would think that Edmonton fans would commit ass suicide if they were to trade him and I doubt he's really on the block. Even if he were the Wings wouldn't part with the pieces to make it happen.

 

But I want to play too.... 

 

Mantha + Tatar + Smith + 1st Rd pick for Hall and Petry

 

Mantha is a blue chip prospect...but still a prospect. Tatar is a good player but a tradeable asset. Losing Smith would hurt but I think we have some prospects that could step in if we don't make a trade. Again Hall could be an elite player and if you haven't noticed the two of those the Wings have are a little long in the tooth

In 2009-2010 Alexander Semin had 84 points.  Prior to that, his previous efforts were all as good (or better) than Hall's.  A number of other players have touched 80-90 pts once or twice and then completely fallen off.  Actually, that happens more often than a guy consistently performing at an elite level for a whole career.  Plus, having two 50 pt. guys (theoretically) is better than having one 100 pt. guy.  It's a lot harder to shutdown two guys. 

I wouldn't trade Tatar+Mantha+Smith+1st for almost anybody in the league.  The only exceptions are guys who will absolutely NEVER get traded. 

Apparently the Wings are a garbage organization because they don't drop the gloves anytime someone on their team gets cross checked.  Something which regularly happens about 50 times a game.  I hope the Wings are ready because if some folks have their way, their knuckles are going to be powder by the end of the week. 

When you see a scrub like Dubinsky crosscheck Zetterberg across the lower back with impunity after there's no call... why should our "stars" even last till the post season.  Dubinsky would have gone for stitches at best if this team had more Canadians on it...When you see Hank and Pav mailing it in and when they DO make a play guys like Tatar flub the gimme pass... you start to know the score.   

Are you suggesting that we aren't a true contender because one time Henrik Zetterberg got cross checked?

Lol. 

Zetterberg and Datysuk will never be traded. Ever.

In order to get Hall, Detroit would have to overpay if they're just offering mainly prospects and futures. Especially since we don't really have a young proven stud defenceman.

Start with Nyquist + Mantha + Mrasek +...

 

Jesus. I'd almost have to start cheering for the Oilers.

Nobody would get that.  Think of all the high profile players that get traded, and NONE of them went for a package of a teams best young scorer and two top prospects.  None of Spezza, Kesler, Ryan, Seguin, Nash, Gaborik, Iginla, Carter, etc. etc. etc.  moved for a package like that.  None.  So why would anybody think that's what it would take to get Hall?  Because he's so much better?  He isn't. 

Everybody always thinks that to get a good player the Wings would have to give the world.  But the very fact that a guy is being traded means his value is diminished.  The only guys that would require Nyquist, Mantha, Mrazek TOO START are truly elite guys (Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos).  And those guys don't get traded. 

Kip, I do agree with you that that is probably what the asking price would be, and I also agree on saying "no thanks". However, I don't understand why you insist on always calling Brendan, Reilly's brother, and referring to Reilly as "the Good Smith". Reilly is a pretty decent player but I do think that Brendan is better. Defense is a much harder position to play at the NHL level, I don't need to tell you that. Brendan's overall skillset is far superior to Reilly's in my opinion. He is bigger, nastier and is a better skater. Reilly of course puts up more points, as he should being a forward, but you act like he's the better player of the two. He is not.

Simple.  To irritate people who REALLY like Smith.  It's my way of having fun at your expense lol. 

The Tyler Seguin trade is the closest possible comparable to a Hall trade (considering their ages, career stats, draft pedigree, etc.).  Seguin, along with Peverly and Ryan Button were traded for Loui Eriksson, The Good Smith, Matt Fraser, and Joe Morrow. 

So Boston got a 20+ goal (70 pt.) winger, an up and coming roster player, a bottom sixer, and a pretty good prospect for a Seguin, a journeyman defenseman, and a third rate prospect. 

As such, I'd say if you wanted Hall you'd be looking at giving up Nyquist, Jurco/Sheahan, plus a middling prospect.  They wouldn't need Pulkkinen too, and they wouldn't  need a pick. 

If that's the asking price I say "no thanks".  Hall is a REALLY good winger, but I wouldn't want to lose the center depth (Sheahan) since we're thin on the ground.  I'd do that package for Seguin, but not Hall.