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Poor E. Can't even sit in the press box without getting dumped on.

Bertuzzi works very hard out there. He justifies his price tag. I don't know what all of you are expecting out of him. The fact that he's playing without any goal-scorers on his line does not help. Franzen is in a slump, and Hudler is horribly one-dimensional. I haven't a clue what is wrong with Cleary. That said, I don't see the call for whining. The team is not in a catastrophic position by any means. Far from it. In case you've forgotten, they were 1st overall in the league until last week, and they put together a 23-game streak at home. These are not accomplishments that a mediocre team can achieve, and the vast majority of teams in the league are doing considerably less well than the Wings are. None of the guys we're discussing in this thread are perfect, but they do their parts, as does the rest of the team. Those of you expecting perfection and/or constant dominance on the part of the Wings should alter your expectations to a more realistic level.

Of that list, Cleary is the one who is frustrating me the most. I’m pulling my hair out watching him play because he’s totally ineffective out there. Hit someone, take shots on goal, just freaking do something with all the ice time you’re gifted.

Meech was drafted 229th by Detroit. Lebda was undrafted and signed after given a pro-tryout. Lilja was drafted 54th overall by the Kings and was traded twice before being signed by the Wings for close to the league minimum. Ericsson was drafted dead last and plays regular minutes on our defense. Kindl hasn't even played one completely season yet and has looked streaky but good. Kronwall and Quincey are both top four dmen on pretty much any team in the league. I really don't know what you guys are expecting when it comes to developing talent, but I'd love to know which team in the league meets your lofty expectations if turning out Kronwall, Quincey, Kindl, Smith, and Ericsson means our system isn't cutting it. If all you've got is Meech, Lebda, and Lilja to ***** about, I'd say look at how they were acquired and what they provided (marginal though it might be) and I think you'll realize we got more out of them, and for less, than anybody else would have. As for the other five I mentioned, show me another team in the league that regularly starts five defensemen that they drafted and developed?

Yeah I really hate when a player leads the team in goals every year for 3.9 million....

I'm really hoping that Dats is in the lineup for March 17th, I'm flying to San Jose to watch the Wings and really want to see him play.

He said he'd be on the trip, but wasn't sure if he'd be playing. He was going to bring sun screen just in case.

In an effort to destroy the season, as well as undermine his own job security, Ken Holland decided to move Commie because he knew that we were going to have three defensemen get injured a week after the trade.

As long as Bertuzzi continues to put up a point here and there and play a physical game, I think he fits well into the lineup. Cleary, on the other hand, is rapidly declining. I think he is really expendable, and we should seek out a younger grinder in favor of him. Plenty will be available at a cheaper price tag. We pay Franzen as much as we do for his playoff performance. If he fails to perform this postseason, I see no reason to keep his lazy ass around. Guy could be a physical force if he really wanted to be. He loses countless amounts of puck battles along the boards to little s***s like Kane on a nightly basis. But to be realistic, lets say he has a decent postseason and sticks around. If Ken was relieved of his duties at the end of year and Bring Back the Bruise Bros took over, this is what I would do: *Let Hudler walk. He played solid for a while, but he's been invisible the last few games. He'll have various offers from other teams, likely overpaying him, and I don't think he's worth any more than he is making now. *Re-sign Lidstrom if he decides to come back. Pursue Ryan Suter if Lidstrom hangs them up. *Trade Brad Stuart to the Anaheim Ducks for Matt Beleskey. In essence, Quincey will take his spot alongside Kronwall. *Holmstrom retires, I'm assuming. *Send Ericsson and Cleary to Tampa for Ryan Malone and picks *Sign Jim Vandermeer to switch in and out with Kindl. *Put Emmerton on waivers with the intent of sending him to Grand Rapids. *Sign Cody McCormick and move him into the lineup when we play more aggressive teams. Franzen-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi Zetterberg-Filppula-Malone Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves Miller-Mursak-Beleskey -McCormick Lidstrom-White Kronwall-Quincey Vandermeer-B.Smith Kindl Howard MacDonald

I feel ya and I'm a big Cleary fan. I think he's still banged up, but it's frustrating to watch him play and not generate much of anything offensively. Franzen is the worst of the bunch though IMO. Helm and Miller bust their tails every single shift and Franzen won't even put in the effort to win a puck battle along the boards. He skates around with no sense of urgency. I just don't understand why he gets excused for being so damn lazy during the regular season because he turns it up during the playoffs. You can play hard during the regular season and still be considered an even better player during the post-season. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Filppula all do it.

I was just reading about all of our injuries today and mlive reported that henrik zetterberg has been playing with an upper body injury. One has to think ,given his history, that it is his back bothering him. With that said, i am very happy with hank because, despite his injury he has still managed to pick up his game to a new level and work his butt off every shift to help carry the wings. But, when pavel comes back i think it is really important to have him rest a few games once pasha is back because we need our eurotwins rested and healthy for playoffs.

Less Cute plays and more shots would be a starting point.

Franzen leads the team in goals and Bert has been arguably one of the harder working players this season. Neither of them are my "favorite" players, but I enjoy having them on the team. Hudler is stepping up his game, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if the Holland decided to put him on the trading block after this season. He is a decent player, but I'm not sure if he justifies his pricetag. Still, I like that he has been putting in more effort this season. Cleary can go - he is one of those guys that I tend to forget is even on the team. If we cut him loose after this season, it's fine by me. That said, I would much rather get rid of Stuart and Ericsson than any of the guys mentioned above.

People around here will hate me for rooting for Canada but I don't care about the Olympics, I want Stevie Y to get the gold

They usually do, thats why the importance of picking up as many points as possible when you are healthy is huge.

Here's To The Heroes - The Ten Tenors For my friend Andrew, who gave his life in Iraq 5 years ago today. A friend, a soldier, a hero.

It looks like the playoffs will make or break Franzen here on LGW. His only defenders point to his past playoff performances as an excuse for his uninspiring work ethic all year. If he doesn't put up big playoff numbers, he won't have any defenders on this board at all. And I know he leads the team in goals, but his goal total isn't all that impressive. It's not like he has around 40 goals, and no one is close to him. Our goal scoring tends to be balanced throughout the lineup.

Good thing we just traded Commodore !

Jordan Pearce...yuck. It's getting bad.

Isn't it about this time every year where the team turns into the Detroit Griffins.

great thread.

Bertuzzi and Franzen aren't going anywhere anytime soon. If Franzen fails to show up in the postseason, I'd really consider wheeling him out of town. He takes far too many nights off for what he is paid. I'd like to see us wheel Cleary out, but we know that won't happen.

The game tonight wasn't great from the team as a whole. I really didn't think Franzen looked that bad, though towards the end he (and everyone really) was skating like the Wings were up by four goals. Its hard to look entirely in sync when your best playmaker and best offensive Dman are out. It was an uninspired game and the guys mentioned in the OP didn't play great, but really neither did anyone else. (Except Smith with his Smithwall on Kane and kicking Shaw's ass. )

but Burke was supposed to be the best GM out there who only builds winning franchises.... I can't stand Burke and his love for flashlights. looks like he'll go down in the very best place to do so - Toronto. there won't be shortage of flashes and media attention when he's fired next season... gotta say... loving every minute of this situation. this team has been atrocious for years - too bad to reach the playoffs, to proud to admin being bad and tank the season for a high draft pick. and I'm sure they won't pull a decent losing streak for the rest of 2011-12 but do their best to finish 9th. Toronto Maple Laughs. epic fail written all over it. plus: it's great fun to follow Toronto Sports Network how their tune changed from "this is the year" in the beginning of the season to the current doom and gloom.

in vancouver... go figure.