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That's where Mrs. Lidstrom comes in.

Torts is honest I admire that and respect that. HE is the only coach who is not afraid to speak out. There are MANY times during the year where I feel the officials make extremely bad calls against the Wings that play a huge part in a loss and Babcock says nothing. I would rather a coach not be afraid to speak his mind and let everyone know what happened. Way to go Torts.

We need to learn from the past, otherwise it's all meaningless. We have to look to the future through the lens of past experience. Having said that - we lost this year (and have lost in recent years) for a collection of reasons. So, e.g., both our top 6 and bottom 6 are, as they currently stand, problematic - and, yes, the two are interrelated, as are all the reasons for our postseasons woes (Helm being out, for example, DOES have an impact on the top 6 and those guys' success - or lack thereof - on the scoreboard).

Suter does not get more pub because of his nationality or father LOL. He is a better player...plain and simple...especially on D. Do you even watch hockey? Its not all about numbers guy. Hmmmmm how on earth would 2 penalty killers and another defensive forward being at 50% hurt Dats and Z?.... Who do you think is going to kill penalties while those guys can't? Babcock literally said during the playoffs "I hate having Helmer and Eaves out because that means I have to use Hank and Pavel for defensive assignments when I'd rather have them focused on offense." paraphrased of course.

Easy there...I was actually agreeing with you. Datsyuk....I know its a small issue, but he is our best forward, is it too much to ask to spell his name right. As far as the playoff series goes, our top lines weren't the problem. We scored 9 goals total , 6 of them came from the top 6 , 2 came from the bottom 6 and 1 from the defence. Our 3rd line was -5 and provided no goals at all. With Helm in the line-up our 3rd and 4th lines get better, with Eaves in the lineup as well we don't need to use Datsyuk or Zetterberg as penalty killers and they are fresh to score more at even strength. Don't underestimate the value of depth.

That worked out good for Wiznoooooooooooski !!

One does not simply tell Lidstrom what he must do.

FORE!

Ya but when the dude comes out and flat out says the regular season is boring..he BETTER go into boss mode every playoff run.

1. Unrealistic: You expecting Franzen to put up big numbers every single playoff run including years (like this year) when the entire team struggles. You may point to last season as well if you want but he was injured so personally I dont buy it. I am not saying Franzen was great this year and I'm not saying he couldnt have been better or did more. But it is unrealistic to expect him to dominate each and every year. No one does that. 2. Franzen isn't an elite player and shouldnt be counted upon as one. The Wings didn't/don't have enough depth (which includes top 6 depth) as a team. Franzen is a tweener - he's not elite but he is better than a lot of secondary stars. If you expect Franzen to dominate against the other teams top pairings all the time you will be disappointed. It's like countless teams in the league who don't have a legit Number 1 centre. They plug their best centre in that slot and then fans are pissed when the guy puts up ~50 points instead of true top line centre numbers. 3. Fair weather and fickle does not imply that you are hot and cold with the team. Fair weather implies that when things are great you're all about them and fickle means when things are bad you're totally against them.

Torts is entertaining as hell, I see nothing wrong with that.

Trust me, I watch Parise play here a lot. The Wings WANT Parise

Nashville never had a shot at Parise... They don't have the revenue to resign their own 15 free agents (combined UFA and RFA) much less add another 7 mill per player like Parise. Well, make that 13 because Radulov and Andrei Kostitsyn more than likely are gone. With the season they had and only sold out 24 times, (many of those they bought up their own tickets) whats that tell you ? Preds supposedly offered Weber a similar deal to Rinne's when they signed Rinne and Weber of course declined. Both Suter and Weber made it clear they will go somewhere that they can win a championship....

Well if the media didn't keep trying to get answers out of Torts that they want, so they can spin it on him, he would probably respect them back. Listen, the media tries to DESTROY and skew the words of Torts, they set him up for failure. They ask rhetorical stupid questions, so he answers with smart ass answers. I would be the same way if they kept doing it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, And.... over. Hey John, why did you call that icing? Oh, i'm not sure, maybe because my guys were frickin tired and I didn't want to get destroyed in my zone. OH? So thats how you coach. Come on man, don't act like Torts is the bad guy all the time. You would eventually get fed up with it too.

Love how the interviewer got totally thrown off by the unexpected counter-question from Pav :lol

Smith and Nyquist pretty much already made the team. Sheahan and Andersson are nearly there. Jarnkrok, Tatar, and Jurco are expected to be part of the team in the next few years. And Ouellet and Marchenko are being called huge steals like Datsyuk was. Thats about 9 guys who you can put your money on to make it in the next 1 to 4 seasons. Then you have our other 20+ prospects...and lets says worst comes to worst and only 3 of them make it. Now you have about 10 or 11 guys makin it. But lets also not forget that over the next 4 seasons, while our current prospects are fighting for roster spots, we will also draft another 30 to 36 prospects. Lets say only 3 of those guys make it in that 4 year time span. Now you have around 14 guys makin it in the next 4 seasons.....but lets assume everything goes terribly wrong cause we draft horribly (which we dont) and my figure of 14 is cut in half....that means 7 guys. thats still 1 man more than an entire defensive squad, and 1 man more than half a forward squad. Still not satisfied? Lets also not forget those 1st round picks we dont need....we can trade those away for whatever young players on other teams you envy so much and use them to fill holes. And dont forget free agency! The Hossa's (Parise) and Rafalski's (Suter) of the world need somewhere to go. And FA's love us because we DONT trade away guys like Nick, PAV, or Z, just because they are EXPIERENCED. And even if we don't get Parise or Suter we'd probablly get some more Ian White kind of guys and turn them into a top notch players like we always do..............or then again we could just blow the team up and trade away the 2 best 2-way forwards in the league to get someone who doesnt play nearly as good defense and costs probablly a million or two more than Pav and Z do. And in the process ruin our reputation as a franchise that sticks by our guys, and less FA's will want to play here. Bottom line is if you think anyone on this team is too old (besides Homer) and that being old is a problem, your crazy (see: Nick Lidstrom, Brendan Shanahan, Chris Chelios, Domink Hasek, ect.). Veterans provide a world of leadership to the team, help develop our up and coming prospects, and are just plain smarter and more experienced than other players out there. Our family style has created a culture of winning. Panicking and blowing up the team is not only short-sighted but completely moronic and against everything our franchise has worked to cultivate. Remember 2006? We went out in the first round just like this year and people panicked and said blow the team up. Luckily Hollands cooler head prevailed and he didn't do something stupid....2 years later we won the cup. This is not a 1 and done team like Chicago....people like you are only thinking about the the present while Holland is 5 steps ahead of you. Hes got plans for 2016 already I'm sure. He's like Lidstrom, he makes very few mistakes....and theres a reason he sticks by our guys. Love my wings.

Dude your either living in fantasy land or NHL12 lol....The Wings are a dignified, respectable, classy organization. And we got that way by letting our players retire as wings. We dont get nothing for that either...players like nick give us 20+ years of dedicated loyal service. What more do you want man!?!?!? and so will players like datsyuk and zetterberg and so on. They are not common whores that get traded away as soon as they turn 35.... They are Wings. They were born Wings and they will die Wings....Even at their ripe old ages they play a 360 degree game that most "proving themselves up and coming players" will never ever achieve or even dream of. We are one of the most respected and successful organizations in all of sports because we DONT do what you are talking about. Theres a reason why in the players poll the majority of players voted that the organization theyd most like to play for is Detroit...we turn boys into legends...put rings on their fingers...then retire them and give em a job behind the scenes...its been workin since 97 and we aint changin it now....remeber 2001, 2003, and 2006? OH NOOOO BLOW UP THE TEAM!!!!! WELL NEVER WIN AGAIN WITH THESE SHMUCKS!!!! (championship in 2002 and 2008).......if ur really so worried about our Vets (not sure ive ever been worried about veteran wings) and our future, then see: Smith, Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Jarnkrok, Sheahan, Mrazek, Andersson, Pulkkinen, Ouellet, Sproul, Tvrdon, Ferraro, Quine, Callahan, Marchenko.....need i say more? our farm is stacked and were almost ready to harvest again....no need to aquire the up and coming leinos and semins of the world. Hockey is different then NHL12 friend. at this point id like to reiterate a previous posters statement....soooooo glad kenny is running this team

Oh Really? And when was that, again??? When I read that, it made me disregard everything else that you had said.

Let me start off by saying that I really respect your willingness to break from the monotonous norm of this forum and share a viewpoint that might not be that popular among the others here. That being said some of your ideas are pretty radical/unrealistic. I agree that Lids coming back at his current price isn't ideal but it's probably the reality. I think he'll come back for around 5.5-6 on a one year deal (obv.) Also, comparing him to Stevie Y isn't realistic but I think that point has been made already too. Also, overhauling a whole organization isn't easy or the right way to get back in contention. Realistically, this team can get back in the playoffs next year if we dump a couple of the older players who don't fit and pick up Parise (which probably won't happen IMO but for the sake of arguement...) or get Nyquist and/or Jurco up here and pray to god they can contribute and that we won't ruin their potential by pushing them too early. It's not going to be too hard to get into the playoffs next year, especially if there aren't as many injuries. The problem lies 2-3 years from now when we're gonna be REALLY old and still not have any great prospects. We're going to have to rebuild at some point otherwise we're going to be middle of the pack until Datsyuk and Z hang em' up.. Then we'll be bottom feeders. We need to start getting younger now (as you mentioned) but that is easier said than done. It involves getting rid of old players that have trade value in exchange for younger players and picks that we can use to start getting fresh, young talent into the organization. But it all has to be done while still keeping the team we have now a contender and not wasting the last years on some of our older players because we had a yard sale with everyone else. It's an challenging task and I do not envy Ken Holland. I commend you for your efforts and willingness to take a leap but still.. A lot of what you said just isn't feasible. Especially the trades you mentioned. Pac from the Habs is a decent player but he isn't the answer to our problems and Ryan from Anaheim would be a blockbuster that really wouldn't work out for us well in the long term. Anaheim is in rebuilding right now as far as I'm concerned and it will be near impossible to lure a 24 year old proven goal scorer away from them without having to give up every good prospect and their brother that we have in the system. Not to mention picks. It would look great in the short term because putting a finisher like Bobby Ryan on a like with Datsyuk would be deadly. It's certainly a sexy acquisition but at the end of the day it would set us back HUGE in the long-term and would be a bad deal to try and make. There is some other stuff but I think it's been pretty much beaten to death here already as far as I can see.. Again though.. I commend you on stepping outside the box and putting it on the line.

The other part of this is of course when do our guys become FA's? Holmstrom, Hudler, Stuart and nicky this year, only 1 will return, maybe. Next year datsyk, Howard, Cleary, and Filppula are UFA's. Howard will double his salary or more. do we spend the big money on a then 35 year old datsyk? Cleary will be gone and Filppula could go either way. Point is as has been the case, change is coming not matter if we like it or not. the question is, how do we manage the change and remain a Cup contender? Do we resign datsyk to another 4 or 5 year deal and commit 30 million more to him, or move him now while he has value? same with Filppula?

Suter Yes! parise? No thanks. Just don't see it. he is a small sniping forward that is weak on D. Most of us agree that the RW need to be bigger, faster, younger, and grittier. parise costs a ton of money and doesn't solve but half of those problems. How does a guy that scores 35 goals, end up with a -5 rating on a defensive focused team like the devils? Hulder is a 3 million per year player that scores 25 goals. parise is a 6+ million player that scores you 35 goals. Are ten more goals worth 3 million more? No. I would take a Hudler and Jones combo over parise every day of the week, and I am not a fan of Hudler at all. Doan and jones would be even better!

Now who is talking about prospects? You do realize that for everyone that makes it, there are 20+ that don't right? Most of those guys are 3+ years from even be considered. heck half of them have yet to play a professional game. Yes we drft and develop well. But what does that mean? We have what, 15 guys on our roster that we drafted? In a span of 20+ years. Think about that. That is less than 1 pick per draft ever turns out. Ok we traded a couple. But not that many. Maybe dat and Z play their whole career here. I have no issue with it if 1. they produce and 2. their pay matches their production. But in both cases their ends are far closer than you want to realize. They are also dropping faster than you seem willing to accept. Fact is the RW are the second oldest team in the NHL-based on the 2011/12 season. Heck babcock said it best after the playoffs "we seem to be headin in the wrong direction". His words-paraphrased, not mine.

Trying to predict what will happen with datsyk in 2 or 3 years is tough to do. Other than the fact he will be 36 and a UFA. if his numbers continue to slide....who knows. Adding a scorer doesn't solve our problems. We have scorers. But in the playoffs, without space to work, they didn't score. It wasn't like we were unhealthy. This year was the first year in several that we entered the playoffs healthy-in a very general sense. But no one scored. Also our 3rd/4th lines are about set. we have a bunch of guys that can and will play there. It isour top2 lines where the issues lay.

Yes, my point exactly. But just like Wiz, players do go to bottom feeders for a bigger payday than if they wanted to actually win. Marian Hossa passed up a lifetime deal worth nearly $10M per season from Edmonton to sign in Detroit for that one season to try to win. He was willing to stay for even less, but Holland chose Franzen and Hudler over him...just goes to show, there are some players that actually take less money to win...