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I wasn't being defensive, but I guess I still don't understand your point. The players knew a CBA renegotiation was coming, but they agreed to a salary and term with the owners. Signed a legal document reflecting that, and now would like to be paid that actual amount. so I'm still not understanding what false pretenses the players were working under. How else were they supposed to operate? They were working from what was known at the time.

What false pretenses exactly? The players are the ones who would like to get paid the amount they signed the contracts for. It's the owners who are trying to pay them less.

If they can salvage a full 82 game schedule, there's likely no need to pro-rate any salary (aside from a drop in revenue). They may miss a check or two, but their remaining checks would just be that much higher. Also, there is the principle to consider. The fight may be futile, but that's not a good reason to just submit. If you can leave the other guy a little bloody, it makes him less likely to want to fight again in the future.

It shouldn't matter if they thought that there might be trouble down the road, fact is the players signed binding contracts and should be paid for those contracts. Period

I don't trust the owners will make good on the "Make Whole" clause, I doubt the players trust the owners more than I do. The owners negotiated contracts this summer under false pretenses. Offering money they were not willing to pay, giving out 10 year deals while claiming no one should have a contract over 5 years. The owners are being very shady and hypocritical, if I were a player there is no way in hell I accept that Make Whole clause!

One thing Fehr said really stood out to me, about how Bettman and Daley only take 10-15 minutes to shoot stuff down, and don't even talk to the other owners. Obviously Bettman isn't speaking for all the owners, has put himself in a position (only needing 8 owners backing him) where he can do whatever he wants, and can't lose his job. There's NO DOUBT Bettman's the problem!

Yup, lets hope for the best. Thats all we can do. I am disappointed with the NHL at this stage. It doesn't seem to me that both parties are that far off. I don't agree that the NHL should be able to cut current contracts. Pay the players every dime of the deals that the owners and players signed for in the past. At the same time, I am disappointed with both parties for only talking for an hour and then leaving. Get in there and hammer out a deal.

nice little article by lebrun here's the most notable parts imo it sounds like bettman was just pouting to the media today because fehr didn't take the offer as is.

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Personally, I'll tune out rhetoric and wait to see what next few days brings. Often a difference between public comments/private sentiment.

A contract ones again is a legal binding agreement, the contract you are signing today with all the clauses can not be modified until BOTH sides agree to it. Boy I'd love seeing ******* like Jacobs crying infront of a judge about a contract he has willingly given out and then with all his billionaire friends crying again about not being able to pay it. Judges would rip these dirty gamblers a new one.

Want to hit the NHL where it hurts? Stop buying their stuff, going to the games at least at the start (whenever that will be), cancel center-ice packages and stop buying merchandise with the NHL logo printed on it - these are the things that hurt. Do some people honestly believe the PA or NHL cares about unliking them? *lol* this is a business and as we all know you hurt a business by refusing to buy ( = giving them money) their stuff.

You have your diagram upside-down.

Pigs or not but the owners who signed huge contracts this summer anticipating never to honor their full value (Craig Leipold comes to mind) need a lesson in fair dealing. I do not know if NHLPA has enough leverage and determination to win but I do not fault them for trying.

The only reason Craig Leopold was there was to remind Uncle Gary that he's already put in the order for the Minnesota Wild 2013 Stanley Cup Champions banner and the deposit is non-refundable. I thought Mr. Fehr did an excellent job of providing the history of how the players gave up too much in the last negotiations and how they are being asked to give up more...again during his press conference.. Fun Fact: Uncle Gary can say the word "no" in umpteen different languages.

They won't give a s*** until it affects the bottom line. We have to follow through until Bettman is gone. He is the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey

This post is very telling. It would've saved me a lot of time and energy if earlier in the thread you included these imaginary conversations that you get so pissed about.

I never thought of it like that. It IS the players fault for expecting signed contracts to be honored by a group led by a duplicitous little weasel

Joe Thornton only has 9 points in 10 games there, in Thornton's most productive season on the NHL, he scored 114 points in 82 games with the Sharks in 2006-07

perfectly said.

Yzerman had supreme skill, but lidstrom almost seemed immune to mistakes. He did everything right on and off the ice. Yzerman was a better captain, but I think lidstrom filled the void beautifully. Lidstrom wins it. Side note: any other team would die to have these 2 guys to pick from

To me Stevie was great. He was a great player, a great leader and even a better person. BUT, Nick Lidstrom is slightly a step up in that he was never phased, was always on his A game whether he was 25, 30 or 42... the guy simply always had it. I have went to several Red Wings games in my short 21 year life, and I can honestly say that anytime number 5 came on the ice I felt safe, I felt like there was nothing the team had to worry about because he simply did everything perfectly and so effortlessly. More then that, he was literally ALWAYS there. As you guys have said, we are spoiled to even be able to have this debate in the first place, but for me Lidstrom was the guy who I always idolized growing up and I met him 4 times and he was just such a nice guy. I cried when Stevie Y retired and I cried harder when Nick retired... it is like losing a family member. Lets just be thankful we have so many great memories of both of these greats.

I totally agree with this. On pure hockey ability and skill, Lidstrom comes out on top. But the best Wing? Yzerman showed up for this team in any manner that they needed him consistently and reliably for over twenty years. Lidstrom was a great leader, but Stevie was The Captain. Love them both, and am honored that I got to grow up watching them play for my team.

I think you are asking two unique question here, with different answers. Who was the better Wing? Yzerman Who was the better player? Lidstrom

Lebda sucks. Could skate really fast, though.

im pretty upset about konstantinov getting no respect but the rest seems agreeable