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In my mind Konstantinov would have been legendary had that tragedy not occurred.

Rafalski. He did it all...and did it all at a world class level. Unfortunately, as so happens when you play with one of the best ever at a particular position, he was often overshadowed by Nick. I also think Nick learned a lot from him on the blue line in terms of offense. I have seen very few "skate the line" with the puck like Rafalski did. At the beginning of his term with us, he was much better at this than Nick. His lateral movement with the puck at the blue line to find a shooting lane was second to none. As a result, Nick soon became much improved at this, and eventually you'd have to say that they were equally as good. But Rafalski was underrated in my opinion.

I'd say Holmstrom. Guy was never remotely close to being an All star caliber player, and his 530 career points won't impress anybody who didn't see him play, when they look back at his stats 20 years from now. However, he was so important, even when he didn't score a point. Imagine how many goals were scored that he didn't even register a point on, where he was somehow largely responsible for the goal with his screens.

Kronwall finished 13th in Norris voting this year. That means he's ranked higher than 168 NHL D regulars among the theoretical 180. And that's on a team that was severely injured the entire season, with a weak D, and a goalie in a down year. If elite to you is top 10, cool. But that's good enough to me to not split hairs about it...

Whenever I see the words "Larry Murphy," I say it in my head (and sometimes out loud with my mouth) like "Charlie Murphy" as Rick James from the Chapelle Show. Just thought everyone should know.

What about Downey? Guy won us the Cup in 2008. The manhood that he displayed in the regular season rubbed off on our soft Euros come playoff time. To this day, people still discredit him on LGW.

Has anyone else heard of this? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kZxiPwGjqAE It's apparently going to debut at TIFF in September with wider release (US) to come in January.

Almost any starting goaltender.

I miss the days of our biggest problem being whether or not Filppula and Hudler were going to shoot.*sigh*

Wow, this thread got carried away pretty quickly didn't it? Seems like there's got to be a way to say what you're trying to say, without being so matadorish. I'll take a stab at it. DeGraa55: I think the Wings will be just as bad as last year because we made no noticeable acquisitions to a team which has underwhelmed for 5 straight post seasons. Plus, I think injuries will be a problem again because older players (e.g. Dats, Z, Franzen, Knonwall, etc.) tend to get injured MORE and not less over time. Number9: I think the Wings will be better than last year because while we made no noticeable acquisitions, our young player were REALLY good last year and should be better this year. And while injuries may be a problem again a year from now, they couldn't possibly be as bad as last year because that was just insane. Plus, there's no way Jimmy will be that bad again right? He's never been that bad his entire career. We've got nowhere to go but up. All better.

I'm not sure how whether or not they were is relevant to the conversation. The post you challenged the usage of the word 'elite' in was specifically talking about the team currently and its players over the age of 31. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall were mentioned as being 'elite,' and you took issue with that word being used with Kronwall (but took no issue on it when it came to Datsyuk and Zetterberg). Am I to take your response of 'they were' to mean that they are not now, in your opinion, elite? If so, why did you question/challenge the use of the word 'elite' in association with Kronwall, but not Datsyuk or Zetterberg..... since you do not believe they are elite, currently?

You didn't argue against Zetterberg and Dastyuk being elite, though... just Kronwall. So, does that mean that you believe that they are the top 2 or 3 at that position?

The one in 2008 was a different era. I was talking about the first three Cups. I can see the argument. Wings fans think of him as an above average goalie who was a good whipping boy. In truth, he's a borderline Hall of Famer with two Cups and over 400 wins. He was more than a good goalie. At the end of the day, though, he'll be more remembered than someone like Holmstrom, who only had two 50 point seasons in his career. For those who never saw him play, people looking back at his stats will think of Ozzie as a good goalie. I doubt people will do the same for Holmstrom.

It is beyond ridiculous how much professional athletes make these days but if this contract ever ends up being below market value... sickening...

Lapointe

I do. People just don't like to admit it. I am in no way saying that the people who dislike him here at LGW do so for race-related reasons, but the reality is that prejudice is, unfortunately, alive and well within the hockey community. Does he have a bit of moxie? Sure. But if he were a white Canadian *some* people wouldn't look twice at his actions or have a problem with his "attitude." I don't think there is anything over the top about P.K.'s actions, and he is a young kid who will continue to mature. Mods, feel free to delete if you think this will stir s*** or incite politics discussions, but I felt it needed to be said.

How has he acted like he is above the team? What over the top celebrations? I've seen him be incredibly excited for a goal but I've never seen him do a dance over a flaming stick or anything. It sounds like their relationship is actually fine now but Therrien is as much to blame with his handling of Subban and any friction there. If they thought the arbitrator would have awarded less, they would've done that. They just locked Subban up for his prime years and he's likely only going to get better. Like I said, I'm not even particularly a huge fan of the guy. I just don't really understand why he gets as much criticism as he does for what are usually very minor things. I don't lump him in with the guys who are sliding down on one knee and pointing their stick at the goalie like a rifle. Or flopping all over the ice to draw penalties. Guys like Ryan Clowe can interfere with the play from the bench and it's somehow no big deal. Shawn Thornton squirts water in Subban's face during play and it's somehow just gamesmanship. Can you imagine the reaction if Subban had done that to someone?

Oh. I was thinking of the Mr. Mister song. I'm so 1980's.

Quincey's agent

Cleary's agent

high tops and pucks, what a good combo!

Hmm I guess my predictions will be: Smith still has a few brain-farts, but he becomes a LGW favorite this season. Babs gives him an opportunity on the power play, and he doesn't give it up. Cleary plays 10 games and is benched for the rest of the season. He then finally calls it a career. Weiss plays 50-60 games, looks much better than he did last year, but still not as good as he could be (and LGW expects). He becomes the new whipping boy. Howard has top 10 stats, half of LGW still argues that he's average. Gustavsson is often injured, and when he plays he is out of position, loses sight of the puck, fumbles the puck in the crease, and will somehow still win us games. Mrazek will play 10-15 games for the Wings this season, and look good in every game. Wings will go on a 3 game losing streak, LGW will implode. Wings will go on a 3 game winning streak, LGW will believe this team is as good as the 2002 team.

That's pretty advanced analysis. Did you use corsi for this?

Hossa is an elite defensive forward. I have never heard anyone call him lazy around hockey. Hossa is always creating something and noticeable on the ice, even when he isn't scoring. There's no comparison to Franzen. Besides, that fanbase started watching hockey in 2010, so that's probably not the most accurate gauge of a player's worth.

Don't worry Kenny's got a firm grip on the wheel.