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I think Holland is doing good drafting actually. Really good. What sucks is the contracts he gave out to Nielsen, Helm, etc in the last 2 years-ish.

Why do you always go polar opposite when arguing an (over)hyped player? No, Athanasiou won't ever be a generational talent, and it's crazy to think he could be, but to say he isn't an important piece to this team, is just as crazy in my opinion. He will likely develop into a solid top 6 winger, and those are very valuable. Kessel was an easy sell, but Phaneuf was not a player teams were calling for. The Leafs were trying to get rid of him, and they managed to dump him on the Sens. People complain about DeKeyser, but I'd take him at $5M for another 5 seasons over Phaneuf at $7m for another 4 seasons. The Leafs also traded David f***ing Clarkson, and people say that we have s***ty players on untradeable contracts... I just want to point out that I'm not saying we should tank. I've argued several times in the past that tanking is a terrible strategy since the lottery was implemented. My point is that the Leafs and Oilers being bad for a long time isn't the reason they're now on the upswing, it's because they landed that number one overall, generational type talent. If the Leafs didn't land Matthews, they probably would have finished last season toward the bottom of the standings once again. Same with Edmonton landing McDavid. We can continue missing the playoffs for another 5 seasons, drafting 7-12 every year, and still be no further ahead. Or we can miss 1-2 more seasons, luck out in the draft lottery and land an elite player that immediately changes the fortune of this team. As the Flyers proved last season, you don't need to bottom out to have a chance at a generational talent (not saying Patrick is that). The rest I pretty much agree with.

I don't buy this, sure the fact that he was a hometown boy didnt hurt, but players are not picked JUST because of where they were born. Either way, at the end of the day Larkin was a good pick and you can't dismiss it. I really don't feel like going through every pick we have made over the past 6 years and cross referencing those picks with others in the same round, but off the top of my head all of our 1st rounders appear to be headed in the right direction (ie. Larkin, Svech, Mantha, Chowolski). Beyond that, Hronek, Saarijarvi, AA, Bertuzzi, and Smith are all guys picked outside the 1st that look good. I'm sure the argument will be "none of these guys are elite" and that may be true unless Mantha or Larkin hit their ceiling, but it's also very hard to find elite talent with the picks we have had. Remember, I never said Holland has been amazing at drafting lately, I said "he has appeared to have done very well".

what yer doin', Kenny?

I'm confused. You said Chicago got good through a natural process. Now you're saying that they sucked for a decade just like the other teams that tanked. In order to get good, you either need to be be bad for a period of years or get extremely lucky. Holland is banking on hitting a couple homeruns with later picks. I think it's a huge mistake. The team he's build has at best a 50-50 shot of making the playoffs. It's loaded with vets and mid level players on long contracts that pay them too much. If the team I'm a fan of doesn't have any real shot of winning, I'd rather that they be going with younger players who have a chance to improve instead of guys that they're hoping will rebound or won't slide too much at 30-ish years old. Mantha-Zetterberg-Nyquist Tatar-Larkin-Abdelkader Svechnikov-AA-Sheahan Bertuzzi-Glendening*-Witkowski 2 random cheap vets as reserves Dekeyser-Green XO-Jensen Kronwall-Sproul *at $950k or so That looks better to me going forward than what will be on the ice this year. Ericsson

Ericsson was a solid 2nd pair guy. Then he got hurt and started acting like he was afraid of getting hurt again. Now he's a so-so 3rd pair guy.

Yup, Ouellet and Sproul are on the team as healthy scratches... Daley, Green, DeKeyser, Jensen, Kronwall and Ericsson will all dress when healthy. Yeah, adding Tavares would totally make us the new Islanders. Tavares is clearly what's wrong with that team...

That's fine but his point is you do it in every thread 6 times a day and it's cancer. The type of cancer that causes the forum to die out. Same s*** happened to hockeyfights.com, even HFboards to an extent.

What sucks about those 2 in particular is we didn't need both. I understand going with Nielsen because he was supposed to be your 2nd line center, but we had zero need for both of them. Sheahan wouldve made a fine 3rd line center and probably would've had a better season stat-wise as well. The Helm signing was not needed. You guys tease on me about bitching about loyalty and returning to form, but in helm's case that's exactly what it was, loyalty and hoping he returned to his former self when he was a hit commodity in the nhl. $3.85M that could be very useful right now. Or if you Look at Nielsen, his money would also be very useful right now. Couldve just made Larkin the 2nd line center and rolled the dice.

Ericsson is a solid bottom pair defenseman, and if he can be had for a late round draft pick for around $2.75M (retaining $1.5M), there are teams (e.g. New Jersey, Buffalo) that would want him at that price. Or are you one of those that believes that trades are hard....

I agree to the point that bitching about Zetterberg's deal and for the most part Franzem Kronwall, and some others, is being Captain hindsight. But a lot of the moves he's made lately have been stupid from day 1.

You don't think Chicago benefited from high draft picks?

Hate to break it to yall, but AA isnt that important. Someone honestly called him a "generational talent" in this thread lol shoot me. Much fast + score a few flashy goals and yall treat him like the next Datsyuk. He's Hudler. The Red Wings standards havent dropped, YOUR STANDARDS HAVE DROPPED. Super cocky and doesnt want to commit to playing defense. Trade him. Let him go to the KHL. Watch the league adjust to his one dimensional play next year like they did Larkin. He'll score 30 pts and yall will defend him like Mrazek, but but but one time he looked promising...hes another middle 6 winger who wont fix anything. Screw him, draft someone who actually wants to be here.

Some people like their team win or lose. This place has become unbearable with the needless whining about irrelevant stuff just for the sake of complaining. Not everything that enters your brain needs to be shared. I've had to avoid this site altogether because their is absolutely no insightful conversation. Complaining about a cap hit we (likely won't) be stuck with for two years after Holland got great value for 6+ years (with a Stanley cup and Conn Smythe) is just another example of talking for no real reason

Yup, which is precisely what I said... "at some point" teams choose to suck. The Leafs chose to be all in on the suckage for the season before the Matthews / Laine draft. It worked quite well for them. Guaranteed there will be teams that will choose to suck this season for the Dahlin / Svechnikov draft. Will one of those teams be the Red Wings? Not with Holland in charge...

Cap space and the ability to add to your roster if the right UFA comes along, and the ability to sign RFA's that are due for pay raises.

We're the product of a GM reluctant to admit that that he needs to do a rebuild or let vets walk away, and who overvalues hard work at the expense of talent.

You would fit in well at cnn.

We're also the second oldest team with an average age of 29.269. Imagine how different all three of those numbers would look if we replaced Kronwall, Ericsson and Howard with Ouellet, Sproul and Coreau. We would probably be a slightly worse team (not much), which would be a good thing anyway. We also wouldn't have those veterans for Blashill to needlessly lean on, and it would give the kids more of an opportunity to sink or swim...

for what little cap room they have, not what he should be getting. Would you take a job that pays you 2/3 of what you should be making based on your qualifications?

I'm more so looking forward to see how individuals perform this season rather than the team as a whole. I'd just like to see a clear direction with management and better systems and player usage from coaching. I think on paper we should be a slightly better team, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I'd like to see us trade off a couple bad contracts, give the kids ample playing time, finish around where we did last season, and get lucky in the draft lottery with a top 3 pick.

This is redic, why sign daley if you cant even sign what you have

You got to be a dick to beat a bigger dick. Holland must go. Does anyone still wonder why Babcock left?

Jiri Hudler 2.0 If he does goes, he'll come back once we got our money right This season is gonna be rough. Cheers,

seen this on another board figured i'd share Second among defense with 26.604 Third among goalie with 9.292 Last season GA position was 26th source http://nhlnumbers.com/teams