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Green is occupying a spot that no kid has any business filling. A spot that Daley, DK, Kronwall, Jensen, and Ericsson have no business filling either. If you want to strip this team down to the bare bones and ruin whatever winning culture we have left preserved, you won't find my agreeing. Green won't get us into the playoffs, but he at least acts as a placeholder for the #1 spot. He is literally the only offensively gifted Dman we have, and the only backbone we have at D besides maybe Daley. He helps this team much more than Kronwall, and that play on the backend is going to help the kids who do make the team be that much better. I would think it'd be pretty frustrating as a youngster trying to learn the pro game and having to rely on DK/Ericsson/Kronwall to feed you and defend for you.

Definitely the right call. Here’s to hoping Karlsson is set on testing the market..

I'm not talking about the trades. I'm talking about the players on that list who many thought would be the future of the Wings. Players the team drafted and/or invested in. Guys like Smith, Pulkinnen, Jurco, etc. They just never materialized for the big club.

Cuzzzzzz they watch them play? There's a difference between being NHL ready and being top pair or even 2nd pair ready. There is no chance that either Hronek or Cholowski are ready to take on that kind of responsibility at the NHL level. Even if they are good enough to make the NHL roster, they would need to be sheltered for a while until they can take on greater responsibility. Green, Daley, DD, and Kronwall are forced to play way above their skill set on a nightly basis. But their development is done. Put a young, inexperienced kid into that position and you risk damaging their development and/or confidence. That would be a bad decision. No one is saying that any of the vet D on this team are top pair guys. But they are the best that has been available in free agency, and you need guys like that to shoulder the burden of playing against other teams best forwards. You can't ask kids to do that, which is what makes guys like Green necessary.

That's better.

Since 2000 (the year that Kronwall was drafted) thru 2014 (a total of 15 drafts), I count a total of 34 Defensemen drafted. Of those 34, only 11 (roughly 1/3) ever reached the NHL in some capacity: Dmitri Bykov 2001 8th Rd #258 Derek Meech 2002 7th Rd #229 Jonathan Ericsson 2002 9th Rd #291 Kyle Quincey 2003 4th Rd #132 Jakub Kindl 2005 1st Rd #19 Brendan Smith 2007 1st Rd #27 Nick Jensen 2009 5th Rd #150 Adam Almqvist 2009 7th Rd #210 Xavier Ouellet 2011 2nd Rd #48 Ryan Sproul 2011 2nd Rd #55 Alexei Marchenko 2011 7th Rd #205 Interesting to note is that only Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, and Sproul were drafted above the 3rd Round. All of whom, except Sproul, have spent significant time in the NHL, albeit as lower tier Defensemen. The other 8 were drafted in the 4th Round or later. That seems like pretty good scouting/drafting there. League average for 1st Rounders becoming NHLers is less than 50%. Holland was 2 for 2. League average for 2nd Rounders is around 25%. Holland was, let's say, 1 for 2 or 50%, well above average here. In regards to the other 23, it's easy to criticize the scouting/drafting for those, but keep in mind that out of those 23, only 2 (Max Nicastro, 2008 3rd Rd and Gleason Fournier, 2009 3rd Rd) were picked above the 4th Rd. So in reality, of the 6 Defenseman over that time drafted in Rounds 1-3, 3 of them managed to eke out long term NHL careers, Sproul at least made to the NHL, and only 2 never made it at all. Let's call it 3 1/2 out of 6 or 58%. Of the other 28 Defensemen drafted during that time, all were 4th Rd picks or later. Seven of them made it to the NHL, with varying degrees of success. Let's call it 5 out of 28 or 18%. Considering that the NHL average for 3rd Rounders or later is around 12%, I would say the team has done a good job of drafting D in later rounds. So basically, if there is any criticism to be had in regards to drafting D, this team's poor record has a lot more to do with WHERE the D is being drafted and not necessarily WHO is being drafted. The Wings have only drafted 4, that's right, 4 Defensemen in the first 2 rounds in the 15 years from 2000-2014. That's the problem. Waiting until later rounds over a LONG period of time to draft D is really what hurt this team. So poor drafting yes, just not in the way we might think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Detroit_Red_Wings_draft_picks

Definitely a bit of a bummer... but still the right call

I highly doubt Kronwall will put up 27 points this season, let alone next. I also doubt he'll remain healthy for another two seasons. He has two bummed knees. He should, and likely will retire after this contract is up. I know you're going to disagree with me, but I don't care if we somehow knew that Kronwall would put up 20+ points in the 2019-20 season, I still think that spot would be better filled by one of the kids. There's no way we should extend a 39 year old Kronwall, when we're trying to rebuild this team.

Red Wings NOT in on Karlsson trade. Looking to 2019 free agency instead.

Make Offer Sheets A Thing Again

I think Jensen will be fighting to keep his job at camp this year, however I think his spot will go to Hicketts. Hronek and Cholowski will really have to outperform in order to force the team to do something drastic. I think Hronek will end up the #1 call up like Hicketts was last year, and Cholo will be left in GR for his first full season.

I will respond to this later but checking in to say that @55fan will whoop you for saying those things about Kronwall. She will Kronwall you.

Overstocked with what? Crap? On this team, Green is like fancy dark chocolate bar amongst a cupboard of KitKats. I wanna have at least one chocolate bar I actually WANT TO EAT. Keep it full. Kids will get their chances. KitKats falling out of the cupboard all of the time and inedible. Melting. I could go on... ---- Ok. ...because Kick did, so I will. Who are you @kickazz? @55fan's proxy? Stuck on Kronner are we? Well he's half a melted KitKat that's been dropped in a pile of ants that my three year old son still thinks is edible. That's Kronner for ya. Sure, the kids need to learn... but they don't need to be broken. Let's say you jettison Green. Kronwall goes down to an inevitable injury. Who they learning from Jonathan Ericsson? Danny DeKeyser? Dekeyser is still learning himself. Sure, you might pair a youngster with Deke, but when they become your first pairing because you don't have veterans to fall back on... who's learning anything other than how to lose? You can't have a quality rebuild by having ZERO stability. Larkin didn't just learn how to become who he is from Henrik Zetterberg alone. Also, collegiate hockey is NOT the AHL.

This guy's been passed around like a rockstar groupie.

Especially with that wonderful defense in front of them that you assembled Kenny.

Welcome back! Shakira is our GM, I'm dating Angela Lindvall, and the Oilers are good again. jk the Oilers still suck.

There's no way Ottawa gets a Matthews caliber player for Karlsson. That's my point. Karlsson will likely be traded for a good (not great) player, a prospect, and multiple picks. No pieces being elite. In the end Ottawa will lose this trade, because it's Ottawa and they lose everything, and they just handled this whole situation about as badly as they possibly could have...

Maybe Bernier can win half a dozen games that Mrazek couldn't. My reason to watch this year will be to see if they can score some goals. But fuuuuck me. That D is still bonkers bad.

Like I said they want to be "competitive" so the kids aren't scoopin' pure poop for the next 5 years. He wants to hang in there for the sake of culture. He talks about making the playoffs down the road a bit. This is his message and it's mind-blowingly obvious. Vanek and Green and Bernier were all good singings. If Zadina and Svechnikov can't outplay AA or Frk or even lil Bert to earn top 9 minutes than they deserve to be in GRs. Similarly, if Hronek or Chowlowski can't take a spot from Jensen? Come on. End of ******* story

Did this last year, might as well again... Jordan Sambrook - 2016 5th round pick. To seemingly everyone's surprise (including my own) he went unsigned and re-entered the draft in 2018. He went un-drafted this time around. Mattias Janmark - 34 points and 19 goals this past season with Dallas. Played 2nd line duties. IMO he will probably end up a solid 3rd line point getter in the NHL. Currently RFA. Tomas Jurco - 10 points in under 30 games played for Chicago this past season. Hawks did not submit a qualifying offer and he's now a UFA. Probably done in the NHL. I bet Detroit doesn't seem so boring now... Xavier Ouellet - Asked for a trade to get a fresh start elsewhere. Bought out. Signed a two-way deal with Montreal (shocked). Even with the buyout money, he'll be making less this year than he would have had he stayed with Detroit for another season. Wonder if he regrets that... Ryan Sproul - 5 points and minus 6 for NYR in 16 games this past season. Rags did not submit a qualifying offer and he is now a UFA. Probably finished at the NHL level. Matt Puempel (who we got for him) was qualified by Detroit and is currently our RFA waiting on a deal. Brendan Smith - Really rough start this past season. Entered Rags camp fat and out of shape. Was waived to their AHL affiliate and went unclaimed. He rejoined the team later in the season. Played the bottom pair and ended the season with 8 points in 44 games. I was a bit surprised that NYR did not buy him out before FA... but it looks like they will not need the cap space as they are rebuilding now. No point in adding a long buyout to the books. Kyle ******* Quincey - Played 18 games for Minny this past season. In all likely hood done at the NHL level. Current UFA. Teemu Pulkkinen - Played zero NHL games this past season, but (per usual) had another great year in the AHL. Vegas has qualified him and he's currently their unsigned RFA. IMO he'll probably never make an impact at the NHL level. Tomas Nosek - Played his first full season in Vegas on their 4th line and PK. Seemed to fit right into their system as a reliable defensive forward. Scored 15 pts. He is currently an unsigned RFA for Vegas. Calle Jarnkrok - 35 points in 68 games for Nashville this year playing 2nd and 3rd line minutes. Mitch Callahan - No NHL games played. 9 points in 45 games played in the AHL this year. A dramatic drop off from his time as a Griffin. He had an alcohol abuse problem in Grand Rapids... looks like the move to the Oilers didn't sober him up at all. Probably no hockey future in North America. Petr Mrazek - After a rough go with the Wings this year, more ups and downs in Philly, he goes unqualified by the Flyers, and then signs with the Canes. From a $4 million goalie in Detroit, to a $1.5 million goalie in Carolina. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Riley Sheahan - Played 3rd line center for the Pens, notching 32 points. Was just re-signed for similar money that we gave him, about $2 million per. Tomas Tatar - Since being traded to Vegas has scored very little and is often a healthy scratch. He's still has term on his contract, but his future looks somewhat uncertain. Probably needs time to adjust to Vegas's polar opposite play style/system. Val Filppula - 33 points in 81 games for the Flyers last season playing on the 2nd and 3rd lines. Signs for $2 million and change with the Islanders. Jiri Hudler - ?? where has he gone ?? Alexey Marchenko - KHL Drew Miller - Sweden Pavel Datsyuk - KHL Joakim Andersson - Sweden Jakub Kindl - Czech Andrej Nestrasil - KHL Jonas Gustavsson - Sweden If I forgot anyone lemme know where deh at yo

I'm not for the Vanek signing, but I really dont see it as a big deal. Signings like the Nielsen signing, or even the Abby & Helm signings, those are signs that they are not thinking re-build. Contracts for mid tier players that are 1 or 2 years don't stop a re-build. Bernier was 3 years, but I think is so they have someone somewhat decent once the inevitable Howard trade takes place. I think Holland wants to be competitive up to the deadline, then sell and hope to do well in the lottery, opposed to being a team that is way out of it from the first month. Again, not necessarily my approach, but nothing to get worked up about. I'm sure a lot of this is coming from Illitch as well. Selling tickets does matter, and regardless of whether or not myself/posters here think this will matter, I think the perception of ownership is that it will. Either way, I'm sure come deadline time we sell Howard, Nyquist, Vanek, Jensen, possibly Frk and IF he wants one more shot Konrwall for picks. To me, today isnt a good day or a bad day in our re-build, its just a day.

Folks still advocate tanking? Yeesh. The point has been brought up a million times so I'll be brief, you don't just throw your young guns to the fire and watch them burn. The Oilers have taught us this.

Fresh take. Now go find me a quote where Holland says he wants to make the playoffs. Till then, maybe you should change your avatar...

Make a beer run maybe. This team is built to win maybe 5 more games than it did last season.

I think Bernier is a tad underrated. Nice gap solution and he might just surprise some folks with his play.