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PavelValerievichDatsyuk

Tatar, Athanasiou, and XO's new deals

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34 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

He should, and I would be ecstatic if he did. If he gets $5.5M or more, and only gets 50 points? You better believe I'll hate it.

You admitted for the first time that Nyquist is on a reasonable contract, so can you please stop lumping him in with Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, and whoever else, saying that we need to "get rid of him", no matter the return... I agree though, I don't want Tatar signed long term at $5.5M or more either.

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$5 million even for 5 years is perfect IMO. It's almost at his asking price, and not such an insulting number as $4.1 million. Just because the team has no cap room, why should he take that deal and lose money? Hometown discounts are nice, but I don't see a way Tatar can justify taking it. The precedent has been set.


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3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You admitted for the first time that Nyquist is on a reasonable contract, so can you please stop lumping him in with Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, and whoever else, saying that we need to "get rid of him", no matter the return... I agree though, I don't want Tatar signed long term at $5.5M or more either.

I list him with those guys to clear cap. He is one that is replaceable within. Mrazek, Helm, Ericsson, Nyquist. We wouldn't miss them if we had to open up cap.

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If Holland can't do that 5 for 5, or somewhere close, I guess he's gonna have to work out a one year deal and trade him. Who knows what junk he might trade for though. He's scarier as a GM right now than having Bob Essensa in goal was years ago. Like every puck that came at Bob, Holland's every move is a toss up.


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I list him with those guys to clear cap. He is one that is replaceable within. Mrazek, Helm, Ericsson, Nyquist. We wouldn't miss them if we had to open up cap.


Helm and Ericsson no. But Mrazek and Nyquist? Not at this point.

There's still question marks in goal, get rid of Mrazek, you have Jimmy. What if he has another long term injury? You think Coreau can handle things? Lol

And Nyquist is still needed at this point. Even though I've never been a big fan of his, he provides scoring. And we can't afford to lose any production right now.


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1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

I list him with those guys to clear cap. He is one that is replaceable within. Mrazek, Helm, Ericsson, Nyquist. We wouldn't miss them if we had to open up cap.

So why trade Nyquist to shed cap and then sign Tatar for even more money and term? That makes zero sense. You want to sign Tatar for $5M X 5. So will you list him with those guys a year from now too? Tatar and Nyquist aren't close to the problem with this team. However, they could be part of the solution if they're (one of them) packaged to land a top pair defenseman via trade. You don't just trade these guys to shed cap, you trade them if you think they can be a part of a package to upgrade your team.

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36 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So why trade Nyquist to shed cap and then sign Tatar for even more money and term? That makes zero sense. You want to sign Tatar for $5M X 5. So will you list him with those guys a year from now too? Tatar and Nyquist aren't close to the problem with this team. However, they could be part of the solution if they're (one of them) packaged to land a top pair defenseman via trade. You don't just trade these guys to shed cap, you trade them if you think they can be a part of a package to upgrade your team.

I didn't say I wanted to sign Tatar at 5x5, I said it'd be ok. I'd trade him too if it meant giving him more than that. I'm with you, if he got Nyquist money so be it, but id still be looking at ways to shed cap. We arent going anywhere with these overpaid players.

...and if you read back a few pages, I said trade Tatar and sign Vanek for $4Mish. I was keeping Nyquist.

But if I'm trying to shed cap, he's not untouchable.

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It would be Ok to sign him one year 6mil. With the only condition, his salary must come out from deducting 750k-1M from those ridiculous paychecks some of our players are getting...

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12 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Agreed.

I honestly don't see this guy hitting the 30 goal mark, nor exceeding the 60 pts mark.

He's a decent 2nd line winger, but nothing special.

Really? He already had 29 in 14-15. He had 25 this year, despite battling the shoulder injury all year and despite our powerplay being non-existent. At 26, he should be headed into his prime so I wouldn't expect his best numbers to be behind him.

To me, he's absolutely gonna hit 30, if he's paired with a good center. People have made a lot of the fact that he scored a lot of his goals near the end of the season, but haven't mentioned that's when he was put with Zetterberg. He's definitely a complementary player - put him with Z or Larkin (if he's figured out the center position) and it'll be good for him and for the team's scoring. Put him with a struggling Sheahan like the majority of 15-16 and it won't work. 

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Yeah, fix the PP and give them skilled linemates and both Tatar and Nyquist take off next year I think. Tatarbjas the ability to hit 30 and Nyquist 25, both around 50-55 points

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13 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Really? He already had 29 in 14-15. He had 25 this year, despite battling the shoulder injury all year and despite our powerplay being non-existent. At 26, he should be headed into his prime so I wouldn't expect his best numbers to be behind him.

To me, he's absolutely gonna hit 30, if he's paired with a good center. People have made a lot of the fact that he scored a lot of his goals near the end of the season, but haven't mentioned that's when he was put with Zetterberg. He's definitely a complementary player - put him with Z or Larkin (if he's figured out the center position) and it'll be good for him and for the team's scoring. Put him with a struggling Sheahan like the majority of 15-16 and it won't work. 

I for one would love to eat crow, but again with Tatar (and Nyquist) I just don't think he'll do it.

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14 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Really? He already had 29 in 14-15. He had 25 this year, despite battling the shoulder injury all year and despite our powerplay being non-existent. At 26, he should be headed into his prime so I wouldn't expect his best numbers to be behind him.

To me, he's absolutely gonna hit 30, if he's paired with a good center. People have made a lot of the fact that he scored a lot of his goals near the end of the season, but haven't mentioned that's when he was put with Zetterberg. He's definitely a complementary player - put him with Z or Larkin (if he's figured out the center position) and it'll be good for him and for the team's scoring. Put him with a struggling Sheahan like the majority of 15-16 and it won't work. 

Good post.  I'm getting a little sick of the "complimentary player" tag.  Tatar is NOT a center.  And that's ok.  He plays wing, which is a position that should have about a 60/40 goals/assists percentage.  And he's good at that.  Put him with Mantha and Zetterberg for 80 games, and I guarantee he clears 30 goals.

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12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Custance says he believes it will be 4.8 for 1 year

 

Yeah, it mentions that in the article. Let's hope the Canes are competitive and willing to part with a young d-man if we do end up trading tatar.. 

On the plus side, if he gets a 1 x 4.8, it'll only cost a contender 2.4 mill in cap space to add him. That should open up the possible landing places if a trade were to take place. 

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28 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Couldn't come to terms on a longer deal? Fun never ends huh?


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I for one won't be heartbroken with only a 1 yr deal.

He's gonna have to bust his balls this season if he wants what he thinks he's worth, and that's good for the Wings.

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9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Trade Tatar, Green, and Mrazek at the deadline. Draft Dahlin and Svechnikov.

We aren't going anywhere, trade them as soon as you can. I believe their trade value is high enough now to get a few good picks for them. Why risk the chance of injury if anything their value go down by the deadline? I understand the opposite, maybe they'll raise their game and be more valuable, maybe...honestly, if they do that and we are sniffing the playoffs, you know Holland will not deal them.

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3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

We aren't going anywhere, trade them as soon as you can. I believe their trade value is high enough now to get a few good picks for them. Why risk the chance of injury if anything their value go down by the deadline? I understand the opposite, maybe they'll raise their game and be more valuable, maybe...honestly, if they do that and we are sniffing the playoffs, you know Holland will not deal them.

I'll ask you again, why would you want to trade guys like Tatar and Mrazek for picks? Because we need cap space? For what? Because we have better players in Grand Rapids? Who? Svechnikov? He might be as good as Tatar in couple years from now. Because the picks are more valuable than the players? They're not.

So what? We trade them for a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Then we hope that whoever we select with those picks, turn out to be as good as the players we're trading away... It makes no sense. If we're trading those types of pieces (Mrazek, Tatar, Nyquist, etc...) it needs to be in a package for a player, not picks...

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18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'll ask you again, why would you want to trade guys like Tatar and Mrazek for picks? Because we need cap space? For what? Because we have better players in Grand Rapids? Who? Svechnikov? He might be as good as Tatar in couple years from now. Because the picks are more valuable than the players? They're not.

So what? We trade them for a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. Then we hope that whoever we select with those picks, turn out to be as good as the players we're trading away... It makes no sense. If we're trading those types of pieces (Mrazek, Tatar, Nyquist, etc...) it needs to be in a package for a player, not picks...

This.  The average pick in the 20-25 range is Sheahan level.  You get some as good as Tatar, or if you're really lucky a Suter/Kopitar type, but you also get guys who never play in the NHL regularly.  They SHOULD be working on a trade moving Tatar plus other assets, including a guy like AA, Svechnikov, or Mantha, to bring in a legit top pair D with #1 potential who is 25 or younger, or a a young top center.  I know it would be hard, and maybe not possible, but that needs to be the goal.  Instead Holland will hold onto everyone trying to make the playoffs just to lose in 5 games.

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