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start Mrazek on Tuesday.

A win: "This team could be a contender when we're healthy!" A loss: "We suck, we have no good players and everything is awful"

I don't know how any of you could possibly know what type of player he's going to be one way or another. People used to have the same arguments about Tatar and Nyquist, and before that Filppula and Hudler. Fact is, you just don't know this early in his career what type of player he's going to be. Secondly, it's entirely possible that he could be BOTH a big time player in the NHL as one of you suggested and a 40-60 pt. player as the other suggested. If Jarnkrok was scoring 25-30 goals a season and another 25-30 assists PLUS good defense wouldn't that make him a "big time player"? Stop arguing, neither of you know what he'll turn into and truthfully you're both pretty close to each other when you decide to speculate what he'll be. Truth is, we traded long term potential for short term gain. Apparently Holland believed it was preferable to lose the potential of a top flight center (Jarnkrok's upside) for a chance to sneak into the playoffs this year. Personally, I think it's a bad decision but you're welcome to disagree. But to try and make it seem like Jarnkrok was a B prospect, or that Legwand is a horrible trade (or a savior of one), is both incorrect and intellectually beneath each of you.

Luongo's still seen much crazier stuff in Vancouver.

Hard to score when you're playing with Glendening and Abdelkader

Weber is known for injuring everybody everywhere.

I think you need to temper that a bit. I agree that he's a rookie and therefore it's premature to throw in the towel on him...but...lots of other rookies (Lashoff and Dekeyser for instance) manage to go game to game without being noticeably terrible at protecting the puck or maintaining zone coverages. Smith is bad at both...even for a rookie. The guy you were responding to is wrong for thinking that Smith's deficiencies doom him to a awful career, likewise you're wrong for insinuating that his being a rookie excuses him from having to play responsible defense.

I remember when Quincey was supposed to be the next Mat Schneider. The last step in development is always the toughest, especially for a d-man. There isn't a guarantee of anyone getting over the hump from experience alone, but hopefully with his skillset and good fundamental coaching he will get there but it appears it will have to be drilled into his head.

Fortunately, players come in more than two varieties so it's not really an either/or scenario. You want some good scorers (your Datsyuks and Zetterbergs), some secondary scorers (Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar), some complimentary players (basically someone cheap, not necessarily good on their own, but able to play alongside skilled guys and provide decent production - Bert, Cleary, Homer types, in better seasons, Abby), some two-way guys (secondary/tertiary scorer that also provides good defense - Flip, Weiss, possibly Helm, Sheahan), and finish off with some solid checkers (cheap guy, solid defense/PK ability and/or high energy/physicality - Miller, Glenny, Andy). Then try to piece it all together to get a balanced attack with all four lines able to chip in some offense. Something like: Good/secondary scorer - Good scorer - Complimentary guy Secondary scorer - Good scorer - Complimentary guy Secondary scorer - Two-way guy - Checker Secondary/Checker - Two-way guy - Checker Obviously can be shuffled around based on exact personnel and their positions, and player chemistry, and some players might fit in multiple categories. Basically, I think if a team has Cup aspirations they need to get at least decent production from the third line, and occasional production from the 4th. A team like Pittsburgh is going to struggle more often than not in the playoffs, and most teams that try to build that way aren't going to have players as good as Crosby and Malkin, especially trying to build through trades and UFAs. With Pav and Hank healthy, I think we have the "good scorers" covered, but of course the more the merrier and one more would sure be nice due to injury concerns. Secondary scoring is our biggest strength, along with checkers. Complimentary guys, mostly Bert and Abby this year, could use improvement. Alfie and/or Legwand could fit in those spots if they came cheap enough. Our two-ways are maybe a little weak, but mostly just from injuries. To afford it all, the checkers and complimentary guys should be pretty cheap and you need a few others on bargain deals (easiest with young players on 1st or 2nd contracts), with the rest ranging from mid-level to high. Reality complicates all of that. Getting the right guys isn't easy. Sometimes they're just not available, and even if they are someone else might get them first. Then you have to fit them all under the cap and hope they all gel with each other and your coaching staff and philosophy.

Weiss can play wing. No reason it has to be either Legwand or Weiss. Franzen-Datsyuk-Z Weiss-Legwand-Alfredsson is a heck of a top 6. Then, Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist as the 2b line.

WTH are you talking about? He's a rookie for crying out loud. Nevermind, you must not watch hockey much.

Selanne Getzlaf (yes, I'm serious) Kopitar Lecavalier Jagr (I got the moves like Jagr) Hossa Miller (Ryan) Joey Mac Luongo Bryzgalov Harding Cullen Eaves Brunner Parros Marleau Filppula Thinking through this, I'm amazed at how many of my faves have retired.

The question with Smith-Kindl as well, isn't talent. it is between the ears. But and always keep this in mind: D take longer to develop. Always has been the case. Why? Who knows, but they do.

I was at the game Every line sucked. I think there was maybe 2 scoring chances for them the whole game. No one showed up. Fun experience though seeing all them in person

Or Poile was set on getting Sproul or one of the younger guys on the Wings roster instead of Jarnkrok and Holland wouldn't budge so Poile caved at the last minute. The people unhappy with the deal are basing it on the idea that because Jarnkrok is going to be a top line center because he was their best center prospect and the idea that Holland didn't work Poile down from what was asked for. We don't know either is true, but based on Holland's comments the Wings didn't necessarily view him as likely to reach that high end potential.

The problem with Kronwall is simple: the guy is asked to run the damn PP and HE isn't that type of guy period he should focus more on a shutdown role and be a physical force again. Where are his so impressive crushing open ice hits? You know the stuff Phaneuf and him are known for. Guys who are clearly better: Chara - *lol* at the notion that this guy is overrated he is an absolute monster and can do it all Pietrangelo B. Seabrook - this is one of the most underrated guys in the whole league, he rarely makes a mistake and gets the job done quietly Keith Suter Weber Letang Doughty Bouwmeester Yandle McDonagh Phaneuf bold = elite, so yeah Kronwall is around ~ 12 good but not in the top group and for sure not elite

Alfredsson moved his whole family to Detroit. If he wasn't serious about staying, the family could have lived in Ottawa. I think he'll play another year or two, and he should. He's been great.

I think what works against Kronwall is that he does a lot of things really well, but he isn't dominant in any aspect of his game. He isn't a shut down type defenseman, he isn't a game changer offensively, the occasionally "Krowalling" is entertaining, but his overall physical game is lacking, and what GMP said about his shot. It isn't to say I'm not a Kronwall fan, but I think the fact he's decent at most things, but not great at any one thing is what gives the impression he's not a #1 type defenseman.

I can't keep track of which people are mad about the trade and which are mad that we never make trades and the large group of people who seem to be upset about both. Glad Kenny did something, we'll see how it turns out in the end but I'm not too upset. Have to give something to get something despite what many seem to think.

Yes, in the AHL tonight. Not with Nashville. Give me a break.

what secret stuff? what details? it's all in the replay, bertuzzi punches moore, moore falls, a bunch of guys dogpile on causing moore to get injured. the coach had told bertuzzi to fight him and exact revenge. end of story, Moor would have been a 4th line scrub for a few years before being phased out of the nhl, he will be lucky to get a few million out of this lawsuit

We can go back and forth about Jarnkrok all we want, but the fact is no one knows how good or bad of a trade this was for at least another 3-4 years and we can actually see what Jarnkrok does at an NHL level. Smith was supposed to be a future top 2 defender for us. Cory Cross was drafted 1st round 1st overall. A lot of times guys just don't work out, sometimes they do. It's very difficult to debate about a player's unknown future when it is so far off and no one here is psychic.

I miss him and this but hope all the best and gets to play lots!

Wish nothing but the best for him. Wouldn't mind having him around but I'd rather see him get a chance to be a regular somewhere else than be scratched with us.

It's good that he's getting a shot at keeping his career alive. Patty is a class act and a contributor. He deserves to play.