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If Holland's scouts are responsible for the picks he made as GM, then' he's responsible for the pics that happened when he was the head of scouting under other GMs. You know, guys like Fedorov, Osgood, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Primeau, Kozlov, Sillinger, Lapointe, Knuble, and McCarty. What a bum.

Some of you may disagree with his approach to trades and UFA signings. Fair enough. But one thing Holland can do as a GM is run a draft. I think we should all, as intelligent Wings fans, be able to agree on this.

I think yourself and kip discount players like Iginla and Boyle for all the wrong reasons (AGE, IT'S JUST A NUMBER) but I'm honestly warming up to the idea of not signing Niskanen or Boyle if the price isn't right. We have Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, and Backman lurking in our prospect pool, literally all 4 just behind Mantha and Mrazek in rank. Would love to see a few of them come in and earn spots, which I think at least 2 of them are ready for. You have to admit though, Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Iginla would be a sick top line. Iginla puts up dang good numbers and plays dang hard without a lot of injuries for a vet.

Nah man. Free agency is a great way to kill time at work. There is all summer for moves to be made. I won't hang myself is Detroit doesn't end up with anything on Tuesday.

That is a HFboard proposal, not true at all. That package gets you way more then Yandle. Let's break it down of how much we would be losing. Also note Yandle is not the best defensive player either. Yandle - 53 points in 81GP Tatar - 39 points in 72GP Nyquist - 48 points in 57GP Jurco - 15 points in 35GP Mantha - good to elite potential (good a minimum) 1st rounder lol uhh.. yea, no. I will take an entire line under 25 years old + 2 great prospects over Yandle anyday.

Guess they really want McDavid.

Iginla would be a great add IMO, plays physical, hard and puts the puck in the net. Age isn't' a concern for him I don't think and he's still got good speed. If you think about it this way, putting Iginla on the top line with D/Z and having a second unit of Gus/Weiss/Franzen, by keeping the kids together on the third line they grow as a unit, still get a decent amount of ice time, but it'll be ice time against non-top lines, meaning they might be able to dominate a bit more as they grow. Personally, I don't see such an issue - Sheahan/Jurco/Tatar pretty much has everything you could want in a forward unit, so let's let them grow at the right pace?

Me to. I don't get upset over what I cannot control.

SOURCE FIGHT!!!!!!!! On another note, can it be Tuesday already?

Then please clearly state in your posts that the information is a rumor instead of as if it's fact.

Yes, to me it would be very shocking. No player is worth that package in my opinion. The reason he hasn't been moved is because Phoenix (Arizona) do not necessarily want to trade him. Why would they? But like I said, a package of Mantha and one of Nyquist, Tatar OR Jurco along with our first round pick would be too steep for me and I think would be for Kenny as well. THAT is why he hasn't been traded... in my opinion.

I wonder if Holland can land both of them Kronwall Erhoff NIskanen Dekeyser Smith Ericsson

The best news here is that prices just dropped. We might be able to get Niskanen for closer to 4.5-5. If we still choose to go that route.

Exactly. He uses the people he hires properly, something a lot of bosses don't do. I just think it's funny that his detractors blame him for everything they don't like because he has the final say (which he doesn't in the end, he has bosses too) but the good things happen because of everyone else.

@gcom007 Im almost 100% positive he's aware how fast he lost 3/4 d men, and you're not giving him his due. id take Ericsson over Stuart any day. I'd take dd now over the last two years of rafalski. He filled from within, which would've gotten praise had he landed an elite defender, unfortunately he couldnt pull it off. And that's not being negative, its realistic. Prospects don't always turn out like you thought, but I kind of believe those players have already played the way off the team, they went bad instead of turning overripe. And Holland signed players.for depth. It sucks those depth players were bert, and Cleary and it was unfortunate that nyq had to sit out to start, but we needed the the veteran presence whenever we could get it last year. The only one I really full heartedly.didn't like was Sammy.

Well I definitely don't want to make it seem like Holland can't, and hasn't, made mistakes. We know he does. Particularly when it comes to player acquisition post 2005 lockout. But I'd agree with Rick in saying that despite his shortcomings, the draft is one area in which Holland has almost universally excelled.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The scouts don't have final say in the pick. Ken holland does. Also. A lot of the scouts are ken holland hires.

And I'm "another sort of fool," because i don't believe Holland's the biggest reason for the decline? Ken Holland is not a magical creature. He can not heal injuries with a wave of a wand, nor magic dust, which he does have, But he sprinkles that on the countless interns and assistants that end up becoming head coaches and gms. Ken Holland is not father time. He can not stop the aging process of some, nor can He can speed up the maturing process of others.

No, we don't have room for 2 D. We've got Oulette, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Jensen knocking on the door. We've got to let one take a spot this year. They are also a lot cheaper.

And Trotz is thinking "sure NOW you a-holes go out and get talent."

Sorry for slightly OT but Postal 2 has been one of the best games ever made. If he goes there their defense will be damn scary.

I once saw Ken Holland murder a baby duck with his own hands.

I don't understand how people are willing to pay a premium for Boyle but cringe on the money for a guy like Niskanen ? Every contract holds some risk yes, Niskanen is coming off his best year but it's not like he has been horrible before the guy knows how to move the puck and how to play a solid defensive game. If you have to overpay him by about 0,5kk you do it, especially with our top 4...

With the salary, term and recent injury history it was a risk...and yes there were other suitors... My point was Holland does take gambles. Just not the ones all fans want.