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If your topic doesn't disintegrate into Cleary, Quincey, or Holland hate, or a discussion about enforcers, u r an LGW god. No worries brother, this is standard, thanks for the talking point.

When those guys aren't playing up to their ceiling and are experiencing growing pains early on are you going to want them moved and say they have no future, too? Lidstrom wasn't Lidstrom from day one, Kronwall had issues, and Smith is improving. People want rookies in the line up ASAP then don't want to let them develop. Bad rookie year, he sucks and will always suck.

I know it's only pre season, but I'm very excited about this team. If injuries stay away this year, this team is looking good. The PP looks very good. This will be a fun team to watch. A good part of me hopes that Alfie hangs them up so we can play an extra young guy, and I'd love to see Jensen and Sproul on this team this year. Before this preseason, I knew nothing about Jensen, but I'm very impressed and one of my favorite prospects right now.

One of my first topics dies a firey death lol

I believe 55fan was insinuating it was cruel to the Leafs fans.

It could be exactly face value. Babs wants him on the team, so if Holland is able to keep him there Babs wants him there.

Yay or nay?

I'm all for a big move, but only if its the right move. There is nothing worse in sports then when a GM makes a move just to make a move. I remember when Philly was looking for a top d man and traded JVR for Luke Schenn. I was baffled by the move at the time from Philly's side of things. Horrible trade for the Flyers. Long story short, I would rather Holland do nothing, then trade one our young studs for a middle of the road d-man or an average big winger. At least with the Cleary and Quincey arguable bad moves, it really doesn't hurt us long term and with Cleary he was keeping his word, which I commend. (He know the crap storm he was getting into making that move and did it anyways). With Quincey, I admit I don't like that move for the price/term given, but doesn't really hurt us to bad. But to get back to my point, when it comes to a trade, your not just acquiring a potential dud, your also losing something of potential huge value. As much as some want to believe it, teams aren't offering guys like Booby Ryan for Andersson, Glendenning and Kindl. I'm also sick of people saying we cant land free agents, do people already forget about Weiss and Alfie? Regardless of the outcomes, they were top UFA's 15months ago, and we got them. Losing out on Boyle (wanted to play with St. Louis), Erhoff (lost out on to an elite team), Nitkansen (Wsh offered more $$ and he had ties), and Sutter (wanted to be closer to his family) does not make us a place nobody wants to go. If we were a place nobody wanted to play, we would be losing players. There is a reason the majority of our guys want to finish their careers here, and will do it taking a pay cut, Holland/the Wings organization treats its players well.

Read that early reports indicate that Tatar is fine. Follow Ansar Khan‏@AnsarKhanMLive Babcock said Tatar got hammered pretty good but he is fine (kneed in head by linesman after cross check from Coneau)

Ah, I remember when smith was but a griffin and LGWs coming savior. In those days things were simpler. Ericsson sucked but goddamn it we had Lidstrom. Now Ericsson rules and Smith sucks.... How times change.

That was a really s***ty game. They sucked and we were slightly better but couldn't score and as usual we have s***ty defenders who give away a goal or two.

And of course Tatar doesn't get hurt on the actual cross check but gets kneed in the head by the ref....lol. Our bad luck is amazing. I wish we had a tough guy, someone needs to knock Comeau's head off. Bad game all around, no breaks. It's only pre-season anyway.

where did Jensen come from? I've heard nothing about this kid at all and I think he's been the most impressive defensive prospect so far.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=718107

Actually Lashoff looked like the one who screwed that one up. He was caught up way too high, covering absolutely nobody, while Kindl was stuck responsible for two bodies in front of the net, although he was out of position to effectively do that. Weiss also looked lost on that play, but with Lashoff so high up, I don't know if Weiss noticed a second too late to cover for him or what happened. He was in an awkward spot on the ice. I would like to see another replay of the play just to see if there was a winger who coughed up the puck on a potential breakout, and Lashoff was anticipating the puck to go to center ice. I can't remember those details of the goal.

2 years ago he really looked like he was finally gonna break out. But nooooooooppppeee

Ive liked what ive seen from him over the likes of a guy like kindl.

Jensen looks really good so far.

Sorry if this point was already brought up, I haven't read the entire thread. Holland didn't waive Samuelsson, Eaves, or Tootoo at the start of the year because he didn't have to. They had some players already injured, so there was room on the roster and under the salary cap for all of them to stay. That also gave him more time to try and work out a trade, which we all know didn't happen until Eaves was traded at the deadline. Had everyone been healthy to start last year, those three would have been waived. Also, DeKeyser could have been sent down without waivers last year, but that was not going to happen.

sigh, Kindl already losing his man at the blue line and allowing a mini 2 on 1 I like the scheme of our powerplay so far this year. They're running a 1-3-1, but the net front presence has their stick wide of the net, almost behind the goal line in that soft area, which provides an interesting pass option for the guy on the boards, if the player can be strong enough on the puck to bring it to the front of the net.

I recall him saying something to the tune of "if we can find a willing trade partner" and I'm sure he was referencing the back end as Mickey asked about that.

I'll believe it when I see it. Holland's been saying that for about 5 years now. Once the trade deadline passes then he'll start telling everyone how's he's going to be a big player in free agency. Ho hum.

I disagree with Mule and E. I don't think you replace his goal scoring, or E's defensive skills and PK ability with the kids the team has now. On the other hand, I feel like Andersson, Quincey and Kindl could all be upgraded or swapped for someone of similar value. I'm on the fence with Helm, but with all his nagging injuries and the depth the Wings have at center right now, I think they could get by without him. He's still got a lot of value, but slotting Dats, Weiss, Sheahan and Glendening down the middle works out well. Not to mention, they'll have some good bottom 6 depth at center with Larkin and Turgeon down the road.

No I am serious. I've been Wings fan for a very long time... through the Dead Wings era, to the Glory days to now. I've seen the massive difference a good coach makes when Bowman came in. I also saw what happened when Bowman's green eared understudy was handed the same exact team pretty much and rode it into the ground. Then Babcock coming in and doing what he has always done and that is squeeze the very best out of what he has and find ways to win. I believe without Babcock we are not still running this playoff streak. Think about the massive changes this team has undergone in the last 3 years due to retirements and a plague of injuries and inconsistent play. Babcock is not the reason for anything that seems to have been "underwhelming". What is underwhelming to us spoiled rotten Red Wing fans is a dream for many other teams. How many of the current top teams have spent their time not long ago in sucksville to pile up top drafts to then bubble to the top? We will not spend any time in the cellar like many teams do (these past fews season is the Hockeytown equivalent really... and we still made the playoffs). I truly believe this doesn't happen if it not for the world class leadership of Babs... You don't ever let a talent like him get away! He is happy here... the best owner, the best GM (not to say he doesnt make mistakes but he is the best), best treated employee's in ALL THE NHL!!!! That alone is worth staying, so will his new contract (I hope Babs is made the highest paid ever) he deserves it ansd so do we!

I don't mind him staying on long term, I don't think there are many coaches who could of gotten more out of this team the past 2 years than what Babs got.