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If we're looking at the "full context," we should be looking at more than just goal totals and goals-per-game rates. VANEK Vanek did what he did in an extremely sheltered role: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/thomas-vanek-traded-small-return/ Vanek started 49.5 percent of his shifts in the o-zone and 21.4 percent of his shifts in the d-zone. Despite this cushy deployment scheme, his possession numbers were poor: https://s11.postimg.org/hqdpwzo8z/Story_40.png (His CF% on the season was 47.5.) Tatar started 31.8 percent of his shifts in the o-zone and 29 percent of his shifts in the d-zone. Despite the tougher deployment scheme, Tatar's possession numbers were better: https://s9.postimg.org/ol2t5m5a7/Story_41.png (CF%: 50.6.) ATHANASIOU For much of this past season, I really disliked how Blashill was handling AA. Towards the end of the season, I watched AA more closely and monitored his underlying numbers. I concluded that Blashill was fully justified in being hard on AA. Let's look at zone starts again. AA started 40.7 percent of his shifts in the o-zone and 25.9 percent of his shifts in the d-zone. Despite this cushy deployment scheme, his possession numbers were poor: https://s14.postimg.org/6tbiywn0h/Story_42.png https://s1.postimg.org/ywnl9amb3/Story_43.png (CF%: 47.5.) A lot of people will treat those charts as self-evident proof that AA is a great player. "If he scored that many goals in such a limited role, it only makes sense that increased ice time would lead to outstanding production, probably 60+ points." Personally, I don't think it's safe to assume his numbers will scale up like that. IMO, AA's game is, at this time, immature and one-dimensional and problematic. If he's going to be hard-matched against top players next season, he's probably going to be a liability when the going gets tough. Even if you take away Tatar's goals and assists, he -- Tatar -- is still an outstanding possession driver (i.e. not a liability): https://s9.postimg.org/p46zhzfz3/Story_44.png https://s2.postimg.org/jmq8d4kfd/Story_45.png https://s4.postimg.org/aw0tr34el/Story_46.png https://s22.postimg.org/a3d852h4x/Story_47.png I think AA has a high ceiling. At this point in time, however, Tatar is the superior player. AA has to grow his game. He has a lot to prove. MANTHA & LARKIN They've arguably shown more promise than AA has shown, but the sample size is still incredibly small. At this point in time, Tatar is the better player. (I have to head out soon and am rushing this last bit.) * * * Mantha, Larkin, and Athanasiou are, I think, capable of surpassing Tatar. And if Tatar wants a mega deal, yeah, you're probably getting more bang for your buck with any of the aforementioned younger players. And that's not even considering the return that Tatar could bring in a trade. So, yeah -- if Tatar wants unreasonable money, I'm ok with signing the one-year deal and trading him. But, like I've said before, we shouldn't be eager to part ways (unless his demands are unreasonable and he doesn't budge). "He's not a gamechanger and all of our kids are probably better than him anyway, so he's expendable" = "I don't fully understand and appreciate what we have in Tatar." He can score 25 goals and drive possession in a top-line role on a terrible possession team that can't score goals and doesn't have a functional power play and has a s*** blue line. (And it's worth noting that he only put up 8 points on the power play this season. Which is, to me, an indictment of the terrible power play.) He's a very good player. He's the kind of player you try to keep. T.J. Oshie is a similar player and he just got $5.75M x 8. If we can get Tatar for just a bit less on the money side and two or three fewer years, I say that's a good deal (assuming his shoulder isn't A Thing). If that's what he's looking for and Holland feels our cap situation can't allow it, I'm going to call that mismanagement. Dump some salary! It's not like our roster is overloaded with "gamechangers" who'd leave gaping holes in our organizational depth chart. On the other hand, if Holland has very good reason to believe he could get an exceptional return for Tatar on the trade market, maybe that does tip the scale in favor of moving him, even if he's asking for market value on this contract. That would be risky, though.

Ken Holland certainly doesn't think so. 'specially with all that Mrazek s*** talking.

The following video can attest to this. #27 in red. Go to the different times listed below to see what he did (don't actually click on them, just open the video in another window and go to the times manually). Can add "deking" to your list of strengths. 0:02,1:09, 8:05, 8:48, pinches2:59 goals against3:546:447:05 deke8:5410:5414:31 deke

Weiss: 13-14: 24gp, 2g, 4pts 14-15: 52gp. 9g, 25pts =29pts Filppula:13-14: 75gp, 25g, 58pts 14-15: 82gp, 12g, 48pts =106pts Filppula has never been an amazing player, but I think he would unquestionably have been a better option than Weiss. Much of Weiss' struggles and his eventual buyout were due to his extensive injury problems. It looks like Filppula has only missed 16 games in his 4 years away from the Wings. Some might be cursing his 5 mill caphit, but it wouldn't have been an unmoveable piece like Weiss. Just look at how the lightning traded him to the Flyers in anticipation of the expansion draft. They got Streit, and 4th + 7th round picks. I don't see any reason why he would have been bought out if we had re-signed him. His last year in Detroit was pretty bad, but he had injured his medial collateral ligament in his right knee (had to look it up to remember the injury) during the lockout that year and never really got on track due to the injury.

It is a good description. He's often way too aggressive and gets caught. Same coach also said he's got incredible athletic ability to be able to make those saves though. If he is getting more open to coaching suggestions and criticism, and willing to work, excellent. Even the best of them needed help along the way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, He just wanted to check out free agency and talk to other teams to see what options are out there. This is why it's so good that there's now that period before free agency when players get to talk to all teams before committing. If that was around then, we'd have Filppula, we wouldn't have signed Weiss - therefor we wouldn't have that buyout penalty for the next few years. And we probably wouldn't have signed Neilson, so we'd be in a better position with the cap.

Salajko talks about all three goalies. Says Mrazek has started to mature and digging in and working hard. Knows it's a contract season for him. Good stuff! https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/wings-jeff-salajko-mrazek-maturing-could-bounce-back-like-howard-did/c-290388348 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a rumour with nothing substantial to back it up. When it becomes more than rumour we can discuss the greatness of it. Lets not start talking like this trade is even on the table yet.

Yeah, what Dabura said. Increasing ice time by 30% doesn't always, or even usually, lead to a 30% scoring increase because the increased ice time is usually against better competition. Nobody knows what younger players, even guys who have played in the NHL and have shown promise, are going to do long term. They might get injured, or have off ice issues, or have some fatal flaw in their game that isn't evident in a small sample size. You can't say "well, so in so is going to be better than what we have so we can lose this productive player." The cap issues they're having now are a direct result of signing a bunch of guys to deals that are "maybe $500k or a million too much, but it's not THAT bad of an over payment, so it should be alright." Which is what I said every time a deal like that was handed out, it all adds up and it will cause an issue eventually. Glendening is making $800k too much, Abdelkader about $500k (unless he took less term, then his current hit is more palatable), Helm is $500k too much. That's more than enough between them to avoid the cap issues. Signing vets who aren't going to put the team over the top is the other issue. They have $5.25 mil going to a 2nd line center that helped them to one of the worst records in the conference, and now $3.17 mil going to a defenseman who is going to be on the top pair by default but is probably a 2nd pair D on a good team. We already had 2 of those guys in Dekeyser and Green. This isn't a corporate budget where if you don't spend your allotment this year the bean counters will decide you don't need that much next year and will chop your budget. They don't have to spend it just because they can.

In hindsight. At the time most were cool with it. It just sucked letting an asset walk for nothing.

All true, but I'm not really arguing that he'd put up as many points as he did in TB or that he'd have been great here. The bar is lower when you're comparing with a guy that put up 29 points here over 2 years. I think people forget Weiss' injury woes and how little he actually played. Just based on health, I can't see any comparison between their situations. Buying out the guy who missed more than half the games for his 2 years is quite different than than someone who's underproducing for their contract. We have those guys and they've not been bought out.

I didn't care less if Flip walked, but good points. No Weiss, probably no Nielson. God damn I hate that Nielson signing. With that term and length, and what he brings, it's immovable until the summer before the last season at best, or the last season's deadline to a contender looking for veteran scoring help (if the Wings are not contenders themselves again by then). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I'll never actively root against the Red Wings, and I'm not even going to say that I expect them to bottom out, but in such a top heavy draft, it wouldn't be the worst thing getting one of Dahlin, Svechnikov or Tkachuk in next year's draft. Dahlin is already being compared to Karlsson, the way he can skate and dictate play. We don't really need any more wingers, but it would be cool to have the Svech bros together. Svechnikov could be the most skilled of the three, and has the potential to be a Tarasenko type player. If Tkachuk is as good as his brother Matthew and dad Keith, he could be a great add as well. Best case scenario (outside of winning the Cup...), all of the young guys take a huge step forward, we finish just outside the playoffs and pull a Flyers of this past season, jumping way up into the top 3 of the draft lottery.

Actually I just saw this: The Red Wings would like to get Tatar signed on a multi-year contract worth approximately $5 million per season — which is about $1 million less than Tatar’s representatives are looking for. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/07/08/contract-talks-red-wings-tatar-turn-sticky/103534746/ Tatar is asking for $6 million a year. Lol Dickie over there thinks Tatar is worth $5 million. Looks like Holland has been offering Tatar exactly that much. Hey Dickie, you and Holland are actually on the same boat! So now what becomes of Dickie's argument?