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It doesn't seem to me that @krsmith17 is one to "oh, I told you so" in either direction -- wether it be success or flop -- so I don't know why y'all wanna go so hard at him.

Almost game time, Howard in net. Looks like Danny D is back. LGW!

While I don't think it's even close to a primary reason, I'm also really glad that's Frk is on the team. Had Nosek not been claimed by Vegas, and Bertuzzi not hurt, there's no way Frk gets a shot and proves he can play NHL. I really think he helps make our PP a little more effective, and his 5 on 5 play has been a pleasant surprise.

@krsmith17 @Jonas Mahonas @Bill Berzeench Won't be happy to hear about this. His new prison is the locker room where he watches games as a healthy scratch. Great job Kenny indeed. I agree. First Jurco and now possibly Smith. Two major wins for us in trades.

Best guess at line combinations: Red Wings Left Wing Center Right Wing GUSTAV NYQUIST HENRIK ZETTERBERG ANTHONY MANTHA TOMAS TATAR DYLAN LARKIN JUSTIN ABDELKADER DARREN HELM FRANS NIELSEN LUKE GLENDENING XAVIER OUELLET ANDREAS ATHANASIOU SCOTT WILSON Left Defenseman Right Defenseman DANNY DEKEYSER MIKE GREEN JONATHAN ERICSSON TREVOR DALEY NIKLAS KRONWALL NICK JENSEN Goaltender: Jimmy Howard Avalanche Left Wing Center Right Wing GABRIEL LANDESKOG NATHAN MACKINNON MIKKO RANTANEN COLIN WILSON ALEXANDER KERFOOT JT COMPHER MATT NIETO CARL SODERBERG BLAKE COMEAU SVEN ANDRIGHETTO DOMINIC TONINATO NAIL YAKUPOV Left Defenseman Right Defenseman SAMUEL GIRARD ERIK JOHNSON CHRIS BIGRAS TYSON BARRIE NIKITA ZADOROV MARK BARBERIO Golatender: Jonathan Bernier

Let's hype this game to OVER 9000!

It's a joke piece. Written in jest.

I think that if Jurco was allowed to be an offensive player from day 1 he would be at least a 3rd line scorer. Coaching destroyed any confidence he had But we'll never know.

It's honestly hard to pick one thing, which is why I asked the question. This far, probably goaltending. Much is also being made right now of some systems changes that has us playing faster and attacking more. The team seems to like it. So that might be a big factor but I'm not smart enough with systems analysis to say if it's b.s. or not.

Trolls trying to elicit an emotional response. They just can't move on...

Why would I "make a peep" about players from another team? You also don't hear me talking about Kindl, or Vanek, or Sheahan, or Jarnkrok, or Janmark. It's "well I don't really care", because I truly don't. One thing I will say though, is that if Smith were putting up good numbers and proving that he were a legit top 4 defenseman like I said he was for years, I wouldn't be here saying "I told ya so" like you two love to do...

He was always a "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" type with me. Liked the guy, really wanted him to succeed somewhere, but yeah, he was always low hanging fruit unfortunately, the D equivalent of Jurco (who I also wanted to succeed). I just don't like seeing any former Wing end up like that. Just wearing the Winged Wheel even once makes me want to root for you. But in the end, I am not surprised, just disappointed.

I don't disagree with your theory Dickie. It's just not Mantha that I would want to trade. When you look at how the "dynasties" are built in the NHL over the last 2 decades, I see a common formula: 2 elite F's and 1 elite D that you build around. Chicago has Toews, Kane, and Keith; Pitt has Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Even the Wings started with Yzerman, Federov, and Lidstrom. The current Wings have Larkin and Mantha, and that's a start to build around. What they need now is that 1 D. With AA, Svech, even Rass, I don't know that Mantha needs to be the guy to go. Cornerstone D are the hardest to find, I agree. But power forwards with hands aren't easy to find either. And that's what I see Mantha developing into. If someone calls inquiring about Mantha and they have that 1D you want, you listen. But the only way I am trading Mantha would be a Shanahan for Pronger type deal, and those are rare. And I totally agree with you about the development aspect. Defenseman take longer to develop and reach their prime. Even if the Wings draft that guy this year it will be 7-10 years before he hits his prime and by then Mantha will be like 30 something? and Larkin pushing 30. So yes, if they want one they will have to trade for one. I would keep all their picks this year and draft heavily on defensemen. Then I would look at a trade over the summer involving some combination of AA, Svech, Nyquist, Mrazek and 2019's first (basically anything but Larkin or Mantha) for that defensemen. Karlssons, Doughtys, Keiths, etc are drafted. They aren't acquired thru trades, but really good 1D can be. And I think the Wings have the pieces to acquire one without Mantha.

Elite D are a lot harder to find than wingers, and are more valuable. the problem with that is that by the time they draft and develop a guy into a legit #1 elite lever D, the young forwards are going to be closing in on 30. If they can move Mantha and some other pieces (not Larkin or AA) and get OEL or a similar player, they're going to be better off long term.

I wouldn't worry about it. Holland has no interest in moving Larkin or Mantha and I think he only moves Athanasiou if it becomes clear that the relationship is just not going to work. I believe Holland is or will be looking to move Nyquist for a pick and/or prospect this season. A salary dump to help the "Sign Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou" fund and a way to open a permanent spot for Athanasiou in the top six.

I dont disagree with you but if there’s stud defenseman available for a 1 for 1 deal it would be stupid not to trade for him.

I agree that draft and develop is the way to go since these trades are so rare. But there have been other pretty good Dmen traded: maybe not all #1 guys, but all of Hamilton, Burns, Byfuglien, Erik Johnson, Seth Jones. But anyway, I wouldn't be desperate for the top D trade right now and would have to be quite a player to think of giving up one of these guys like Mantha Larkin, AA who seem so important for the future. We have a few years of drafting and rebuilding so hopefully we do find some good Dmen through the draft.

I think Dickie's looking ahead a couple of years to a hypothetical situation where Larkin and Mantha have established themselves as truly elite players. In which case, yeah, Mantha probably could fetch us a really good young defenseman...but probably not an elite 1D. If we only have two elite players and they're both forwards and we're looking to trade one for a defenseman, that defenseman has to be phenomenal. That, or your prospective trade partner has an embarrassment of riches on the blue line and desperately needs to add a top-tier forward, as in Nashville trading Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen. Though, even there, Nashville gave up a young 1C for a defenseman who isn't guaranteed to become a great 1D. And now Columbus is trying to win a Cup with Nick Foligno/Alexander Wennberg and Brandon Dubinsky as their top two centermen. Fortunately for them, Werenski and Bobrovsky are phenomenal. Huh? OEL has been an elite defenseman for years now.

Y'know, I think back to our three most recent playoff series -- Chicago in 2013, Tampa in 2014, Tampa in 2015. We had the inferior D group in each series and it's probably fair to say that was the big deciding factor in each series. However, I feel like the real story of each of those series was, basically, "They scored when they absolutely needed to score and we failed to score when we absolutely needed to score." Our forwards struggled to get to the inside in the o-zone and generate a lot of Grade A scoring chances, we didn't bury enough of the you-absolutely-have-to-score-there chances that we did get, and the power play wasn't good enough. Really close games that could go either way -- that's where you really want to have a gamebreaking scorer, or two, or three. We don't know how Mantha will pan out, but he has all the tools needed to become that kind of gamebreaking scorer who can be counted on to tip the scale in his team's favor in a buttclenchingly close game or playoff series. And that's a really big deal, especially for an organization that's in the situation we're in. If you're Ken Holland, you don't trade Mantha this year or next year or the year after that -- unless, perhaps, you draft an Andrei Svechnikov.

Srsly tho. It'd have to be one helluva defenseman. And even then, I dunno. We're not really in a position to be moving our top talent, because we appear to have only two top-tier(ish) players in the entire system atm. Tampa could afford to part with Drouin because they have a fantastic core trio in Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman. We don't have that kind of flexibility. (At least, not yet.) It'd probably be a lateral move, at best. It's generally harder to find an elite defenseman than it is to find an elite winger, I'll concede that. But it's pretty damn hard to find a dominant 6'5" scoring winger. FWIW, Kevin Allen of USA Today did a piece on the Wings' rebuild-on-the-fly and the elusiveness of That Elite Defenseman: Red Wings: Rebuild on the fly could work with this path He's right that "a premium defenseman is the hardest piece to find in a rebuild." But I think he's also right that "If any of [Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou] fall short of expectations, the Red Wings' rebuilding efforts will be slowed, even with a premium defenseman."

BLASPHEMY! BURN THE HERETIC!

Re: Larkin, Man, I'm just happy we finally have a viable young 1C again, for the first time since, like, young Datsyuk-Zetterberg. I mean, *knock on wood* and all that. But, yeah. Larkin is really good and is only 21 and let me enjoy this HYPE! I need this HYPE! This HYPE! sustains me.