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krsmith17

Frk claimed by the Carolina Hurricanes

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37 minutes ago, kliq said:

When it comes to Pulkinnen, it will be interesting what happens tomorrow. At the end of the day, its lose-lose. If he's claimed, we lose. If nobody puts a claim in for him, then it just proves that he has zero trade value. If he cant play in the NHL AND he has no trade value, we lose.

I dont know much about Frk. Never fun to lose someone, but if he's a below average bottom 6 guy, I cant say I care too much. If he ends up being a top 6 guy, then this is awful asset management, especially since it was to keep Miller and Ott.

 

110% chance pulkkinen gets claimed 

 

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I don't care much about Frk, Pulkinnen or any other of the overrated prospects but to me it's so obvious that Holland doesn't know what a rebuild is and how to do one the right way. Fine Frk, Pulkinnen and whoever gets waived weren't good enough to make that embarrassing roster. Solution get players who are better not just your usual patchwork type of guys but young players who are better and can help the ******* team right now and in the future. Of course this involves not playing golf the whole summer instead of get of your rich ass and work the phones in order to pull of a trade that finally lands this team a sniper and a top 4 defenseman! 

Can't pull of a trade? Fine, maybe stop kicking the tires and offer some pieces with real value instead of trying to shovel your own average players onto other GMS, they are smart they won't bite! Can't pull of a trade, can't get top guys to sign here? Fine, go with the young guns stop signing all these garbage veterans and finally get better draft picks. Can't do that either? Move up the latter and make place for someone who will...if only someone named Steve Yzerman would have been available a few ago..thanks for blocking him you moron! 

If Vanek makes the team over AA and/or Mantha that will be quite telling but of course holland has to justify his signing somehow right? Also Nielsen as a number 1 center *lol* a guy who never had to deal with the other teams top defensive pairing or top players, thanks to being the second fiddle behind superstar JT. 

Can't believe this is last lineup that will ever play in the JLA...not a good way to install confidence in a fanbase that had to deal with way too much crossroads seasons and first round exits lately. I'm sure Mr. I will be thrilled to announce the price-increases for the Gordie Howe Arena when most of these guys will be back next year.

 

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17 minutes ago, kliq said:

How do you figure? Whether or not they kept Frk, Helm is playing third line. If they didn't sign one of Ott or Miller, Frk would have the spot they have now. That spot being 4th line winger/reserve player.

 

 

Helm should be on the 4th line and killing penalties , maybe filling in the top 3 lines if there's an obscene amount of injuries one season 

 

giving him 4 mill per is ridiculous , holland needs to go 

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Helm should be on the 4th line and killing penalties , maybe filling in the top 3 lines if there's an obscene amount of injuries one season 

 

giving him 4 mill per is ridiculous , holland needs to go 

Not sure what this has to do with my post. I said that Miller/Ott are the reasons why Frk was waived.You can argue that helm should be 4th line, but he's not. Since he is not, he has nothing to do with Frk being waived, its the guy that are on 4th line playing forward that are the reasons (Miller/Ott). If you want to argue Helm is blocking someone's spot, it would AA.

*edit* Just reading some scouting reports on Frk, and from what I read he not that good of a skater or defender, I guess not really ideal for our 4th line. With that being said, I guess I wish we traded him for a pick.

Edited by kliq

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38 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

I don't care much about Frk, Pulkinnen or any other of the overrated prospects but to me it's so obvious that Holland doesn't know what a rebuild is and how to do one the right way. Fine Frk, Pulkinnen and whoever gets waived weren't good enough to make that embarrassing roster. Solution get players who are better not just your usual patchwork type of guys but young players who are better and can help the ******* team right now and in the future. Of course this involves not playing golf the whole summer instead of get of your rich ass and work the phones in order to pull of a trade that finally lands this team a sniper and a top 4 defenseman! 

Can't pull of a trade? Fine, maybe stop kicking the tires and offer some pieces with real value instead of trying to shovel your own average players onto other GMS, they are smart they won't bite! Can't pull of a trade, can't get top guys to sign here? Fine, go with the young guns stop signing all these garbage veterans and finally get better draft picks. Can't do that either? Move up the latter and make place for someone who will...if only someone named Steve Yzerman would have been available a few ago..thanks for blocking him you moron! 

If Vanek makes the team over AA and/or Mantha that will be quite telling but of course holland has to justify his signing somehow right? Also Nielsen as a number 1 center *lol* a guy who never had to deal with the other teams top defensive pairing or top players, thanks to being the second fiddle behind superstar JT. 

Can't believe this is last lineup that will ever play in the JLA...not a good way to install confidence in a fanbase that had to deal with way too much crossroads seasons and first round exits lately. I'm sure Mr. I will be thrilled to announce the price-increases for the Gordie Howe Arena when most of these guys will be back next year.

 

 

As long as Illitch is the owner of this team, this is not going to happen. I'm not sure if you follow baseball Frank, but last year at the trade deadline the Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski wanted to sell as the Tigers were not going to make the playoffs. Long story short, word is that Illitch was so pissed at this, it led to DD's ousting as GM. I believe Holland has 2 mandates from ownership...1) Make the Playoffs, 2) Build a winner. It is very hard to to do both at the same time. With that being said, I am not for tanking. I think many teams try this and fail miserably creating a losing culture for a long long long time. However, I do think there are some moves that we make that do hurt long term. I personally wish we didnt sign Vanek and played Mantha top 6 or top 9, I wish we didnt sign Ott, put Sheahan on 4th line and played AA on the third line, I would bench E for XO, and I would rotate Sproul into the lineup somehow. I didnt love the Nielson signing, but I dont hate it as it gives Larkin some time to mature into the role of 1C.

I agree that we do need to find a top caliber d-man. Hopefully other teams balk at Winnipeg's demands and we somehow pull-off a trade for Trouba.

 

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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/10/red_wings_jeff_blashill_on_tee.html#incart_river_index

This article says "Blashill confirmed that either Andreas Athanasiou or Anthony Mantha will start the season on the NHL roster," That's good to hear, but I don't see how it makes sense. They say they have to be playing to stay so that forces someone from the lineup that kickazz posted to be an extra forward. Would love if it was Miller or Ott, but comments from Blash seem like that 4th line is set in stone. I'll be mad if Sheahan's a scratch over one of those 2.

Waiving Pulkkinen was a big shock and I think is a really bad move. I don't Frk was ever going to make the team - He had a good camp, but he only had the one good year in GR so I expected it to happen. Still would have preferred him to Miller/Ott, but don't think it's a huge loss.

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Wasn't Pulkkinen passed over by many in the draft because he was injury prone? Maybe they thought he was heading back in the direction. Plus whatever. He will still be slow, easy to knock off the puck, and take too long to get his shot off no matter what team he plays for. 

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I don't think anyone is actually over-valuing Frk or Pulkkinen here. They will both be middle 6, likely 3rd line players. None of this uproar is really about them, it's about keeping lesser quality players on the roster over them. Holland continues to make terrible signings at the expense of better, younger, cheaper players that the team has put time and money into to draft and develop. It's like Wings3:16 said, Holland continues to preach "building through the draft" but loses talent every single year. You can say all you want that these guys are not NHL quality players, or they're no big loss, but both of these players are better than anything we've lost in the past. When there were 3+ claims on one and at least that for the other today, I think it's clear both are quality talent. Look at all the players going through waivers this week, every single one has cleared so far except Frk yesterday, and Pulkkinen today... That is terrible asset management. But hey, we still have Miller and Ott on the team...

What happens when Kronwall is healthy? Do we continue to go with 8 defensemen? I doub it. Meaning one of Sproul or Ouellet will be waived and definitely, 100% claimed. Unless of course there's a trade made before then... I'm not going to hold my breath...

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Apparently Holland tried to trade both Frk and Pulk but wasn't able to get anything for them.

I'm sure it was fairly obvious to these teams that they could probably just wait for waivers. Should have tried to trade Pulk a while back.

I do feel that Holland is not capable of making a notable trade, which makes him useless considering all the prospects we have horded. They are all losing value at this point.

It's fairly obvious we need a change. The league knows him too well and he's gotten stale. He can take Blash with him.

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Frk's biggest knock was always his skating, but that has improved leaps and bounds since then. He's still not a great skater or fast by any stretch, but he can definitely keep up to the pace of the NHL. I think he will go on to have a better career than Pulkkinen. Frk is very strong on the puck and seems to be a much smarter player. I would have liked to keep him over signing Vanek. Vanek is probably the better player today, but Frk would likely be the better player next year and in the future. Not to mention it would have saved the team $2M in cap space. Holland is terrible at cap management and a big part of that is taking advantage of entry level contracts, something he is incapable of doing...

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone is actually over-valuing Frk or Pulkkinen here. They will both be middle 6, likely 3rd line players. None of this uproar is really about them, it's about keeping lesser quality players on the roster over them. Holland continues to make terrible signings at the expense of better, younger, cheaper players that the team has put time and money into to draft and develop. It's like Wings3:16 said, Holland continues to preach "building through the draft" but loses talent every single year. You can say all you want that these guys are not NHL quality players, or they're no big loss, but both of these players are better than anything we've lost in the past. When there were 3+ claims on one and at least that for the other today, I think it's clear both are quality talent. Look at all the players going through waivers this week, every single one has cleared so far except Frk yesterday, and Pulkkinen today... That is terrible asset management. But hey, we still have Miller and Ott on the team...

What happens when Kronwall is healthy? Do we continue to go with 8 defensemen? I doub it. Meaning one of Sproul or Ouellet will be waived and definitely, 100% claimed. Unless of course there's a trade made before then... I'm not going to hold my breath...

I'm sorry , I never wish for someone to get hurt but I'm hoping one of our defensemen get hurt not named ouellet/sproul , especially Ericsson or maybe kronwall gets delayed another 4 weeks 

 

just enough time for us to see sproul and ouellet play and hopefully show the management they are worth keeping around, seeing as defense is our biggest concern I don't think we should be giving up on a vlasic type player in ouellet and someone who's as a big as sproul and can potentially be a good powerplay contributer

 

as you mentioned with frk and pulkkinen they both never got a real shot in Detroit especially frk, boggles my mind these washed up veteran signings/trades that happen every year and always fails ... Weiss/legwand/Cole/tootoo/samuelsson etc... 

 

Enough is enough, start playing the kids more for Christ sake , but what pisses me off is losing these kids for nothing , there's no way we couldn't of got a 5-7th rounder for each when more than one team are putting in a claim for these guys 

 

mrazek was a 5th rounder, we should always be collecting assets back not drafting,developing them for 4 years and giving them away for free to have careers elsewhere

 

ridiculous 

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2 hours ago, NitzGuy said:

Apparently Holland tried to trade both Frk and Pulk but wasn't able to get anything for them.

I'm sure it was fairly obvious to these teams that they could probably just wait for waivers. Should have tried to trade Pulk a while back.

I do feel that Holland is not capable of making a notable trade, which makes him useless considering all the prospects we have horded. They are all losing value at this point.

It's fairly obvious we need a change. The league knows him too well and he's gotten stale. He can take Blash with him.

Where did you hear he tried to trade them? Sounds like more bs to try and save face 

 

I can't imagine a team in the middle of the standings with interest in pulkkinen wouldn't think it's not possible someone would claim a guy with his shot and was a goal scoring machine in the ahl(yes I'm aware it's a different league) and never got a real shot in the NHL 

 

your ur telling me they wouldn't of given up a 7th if they liked him ? No let's cross our fingers and hopes he passes 16 teams and falls to us .... Please 

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2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Where did you hear he tried to trade them? Sounds like more bs to try and save face 

 

I can't imagine a team in the middle of the standings with interest in pulkkinen wouldn't think it's not possible someone would claim a guy with his shot and was a goal scoring machine in the ahl(yes I'm aware it's a different league) and never got a real shot in the NHL 

 

your ur telling me they wouldn't of given up a 7th if they liked him ? No let's cross our fingers and hopes he passes 16 teams and falls to us .... Please 

Khan said it

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/10/red_wings_jeff_blashill_on_tee.html#incart_river_index

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7 hours ago, kliq said:

Not sure what this has to do with my post. I said that Miller/Ott are the reasons why Frk was waived.You can argue that helm should be 4th line, but he's not. Since he is not, he has nothing to do with Frk being waived, its the guy that are on 4th line playing forward that are the reasons (Miller/Ott). If you want to argue Helm is blocking someone's spot, it would AA.

*edit* Just reading some scouting reports on Frk, and from what I read he not that good of a skater or defender, I guess not really ideal for our 4th line. With that being said, I guess I wish we traded him for a pick.

Simply stating if helm was on the 4th doing the role he should be then we wouldn't of needed both of Miller/ott and frk would be here 

both Miller and ott though shouldn't be here ... We could of had a line of helm glendening sheahan for example and been just fine , but holland is wiling to f*** the team to keep the streak

 

and yes we should be getting draft picks for these kids 

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Simply stating if helm was on the 4th doing the role he should be then we wouldn't of needed both of Miller/ott and frk would be here 

both Miller and ott though shouldn't be here ... We could of had a line of helm glendening sheahan for example and been just fine , but holland is wiling to f*** the team to keep the streak

 

and yes we should be getting draft picks for these kids 

Do you really think the mandate for the streak is coming from Holland and not ownership? Thing about it logically, Illitch is 87 years old, he has already won 4 cups, I believe he feels there is one thing left to accomplish, the all time record for a playoff streak. Its obvious how important this streak is to the team.

The narrative on Illitch in 20 years will be a guy who took over the Wings during an awful era, won 4 cups, and set the all time playoff streak, keeping the Wings competitive for 30 years straight. This is what I believe he wants to be remembered as. In 20 years nobody is going to remember that they were not elite for the last 5 years of the streak.

People can say fire Holland, but I cant see this new "savior" doing anything different working within the same system. If anything I would worry that the drafting wouldn't be as good as that is one of Holland and co's strong suits. The fact that Holland is able to acquire so much good young talent while keeping this team competitive (ie. low pics) IMO is very impressive.

I have said this before, I am a GM in real life (not as anything close to as big as a sports team lol) and being a GM can be very frustrating because everyone puts every decision on you, however you do answer to an owner. I can tell you first hand, ownership usually doesn't "get it" like they should and at times you have to implement poor policies or make poor decisions because of mandates from ownership.

I'm not saying Holland can do no wrong, there are plenty of scenario's where I have been upset with his decision making (the cujo/hasek situation made me furious), but things are generally more complicated then what we the public see.

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8 minutes ago, derblaueClaus said:

.... That guys like Frk and Pulkinnen end up on waivers shows two things for me. First that Hollands roster management is questionable at the moment. And that our scouting picked the wrong guys from 2010 to 2013 or so. If that is because the players needed for the game have changed, scouting just got worse, bad luck or a combination of all three I don't know. But we didn't get what we needed out of those drafts for sure and that hurts us now.

You should look at those drafts again. If anything, we drafted too well and got more than we had room for. We got Sheahan and Mrazek in 2010, plus Jarnkrok and Pulk. Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko in 2011, AA plus Frk in 2012, Mantha, Bertuzzi, and Janmark in 2013. It's rare to get more than 1-2 NHL players in any given draft. 

Sure, we can question the roster management, say we should have traded more prospects, but people got pissed when we did that too. It's a no-win situation. People have unrealistic expectations. 

 

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11 hours ago, kliq said:

How do you figure? Whether or not they kept Frk, Helm is playing third line. If they didn't sign one of Ott or Miller, Frk would have the spot they have now. That spot being 4th line winger/reserve player.

 

 

Put Helm on the 4th line, set Ott as a reserve, and put Frk on the 3rd line.  Frk playing with Glendening and Miller would be as effective as Jurco or Pilkkinen there, square peg in a round hole.

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3 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

 

your ur telling me they wouldn't of given up a 7th if they liked him ? No let's cross our fingers and hopes he passes 16 teams and falls to us .... Please 

Yes, they wouldn't HAVE given up a 7th, because he didn't have enough value to trade an asset, and they obviously didn't think enough of him to want him unless they could have him for free.

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I understand the problem. All of our depth forwards, two of which we lost, are 3rd liners or better. Keeping them here in a 4th line or 13th fwd capacity is a waste. That being said, maybe, if we absolutely had to re-sign Helm, maybe they should've left Miller and Ott alone. Because a 4th line of Sheahan-Helm-Glendening would be fine. That would've made a 3rd line of Mantha -AA- Frk very exciting to watch.

We'd still have to deal with Jurco and Pulkkinen, or just start AA and Mantha in GR until we traded to make room.Holland is the only GM to get fleeced for his prized young prospects. Hell , at the very least, it's two less bargaining chips we could've used in a package to upgrade our D. Now all we have is Jurco and even better prospects. So if a trade is made, get ready!

Cannot wait to lose Sproul when Kronwall gets back, just so we can keep Erection. 

Edited by LeftWinger

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