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DickieDunn

Off-season moves

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According to Custance Holland is looking for a young D and AA is on the block. Of course it might just be Holland's way of saying I tried.

 

Assuming he does make a move and trade a young forward, I'd look to trade them in this order: Svechnikov, because he hasn't shown what he can do in the NHL yet. AA, he's fast and dynamic but has a higher chance of not being a stud compared to the others. Mantha, because he's big and looks like a perinnieal 25-30 goal guy. Larkin, a potential#1 center who takes care of things on both ends.

 

This doesn't mean I dislike any or don't believe they all have potential, but it takes assets to get assets, and we NEED a high end D.

 

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I'd keep all four of those forwards. They're really all we have on the team and in the system for the near future. Takes assets to get assets, but it would take two of the four at least (likely starts with Larkin and/or Mantha) to land a #1 D. Or maybe all the overpaid guys currently on the blue line could try a bit harder to earn their pay in the meantime?


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This is going to be a short thread. Holland will make minimum moves. Trading AA would be the worst move of his career. Given the number of minutes and importance of those minutes,  AA was by far your best player last season. Do not trade.

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This is going to be a short thread. Holland will make minimum moves. Trading AA would be the worst move of his career. Given the number of minutes and importance of those minutes,  AA was by far your best player last season. Do not trade.

No he wasn't. Trashill went overboard reacting to his defensive issues but they're a legit concern, and more minutes doesn't mean he's going to have the same per 60 numbers, especially playing against better competition.

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I'd keep all four of those forwards. They're really all we have on the team and in the system for the near future. Takes assets to get assets, but it would take two of the four at least (likely starts with Larkin and/or Mantha) to land a #1 D. Or maybe all the overpaid guys currently on the blue line could try a bit harder to earn their pay in the meantime?


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I would too, and unless I'm getting a young guy who's already elite I wouldn't move more than one of them, but one of them plus other assets might bring back a young defenseman, and if you can do that you make the move. Forwards are a lot easier to identify in the draft and find in general than a good D.

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15 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Given the number of minutes and importance of those minutes,  AA was by far your best player last season.

Zetterberg was our best player. Zetterberg IS our best player.

AA played a limited role and produced well enough in that limited role -- though, his underlying numbers were mostly ugly. Can he put up big numbers in a bigger, more demanding role? Can he be counted on to go toe-to-toe with top talent every night and win those matchups? Remains to be seen.

At present, AA is a middle-six winger who needs to grow his game. He has gamebreaking ability, but he's not (yet) an all-around great NHLer and we can't be certain he's ever going to become much more than what he is right now. The jury's out on him. (And, to be fair, it's also out on Larkin and Mantha.)

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5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Zetterberg was our best player. Zetterberg IS our best player.

AA played a limited role and produced well enough in that limited role -- though, his underlying numbers were mostly ugly. Can he put up big numbers in a bigger, more demanding role? Can he be counted on to go toe-to-toe with top talent every night and win those matchups? Remains to be seen.

At present, AA is a middle-six winger who needs to grow his game. He has gamebreaking ability, but he's not (yet) an all-around great NHLer and we can't be certain he's ever going to become much more than what he is right now. The jury's out on him. (And, to be fair, it's also out on Larkin and Mantha.)

Like I said, given his limited minutes and importance of those minutes he was the best. Z had more of both, time and important  time.

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37 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

This is going to be a short thread. Holland will make minimum moves. Trading AA would be the worst move of his career. Given the number of minutes and importance of those minutes,  AA was by far your best player last season. Do not trade.

Would trading AA for McDavid be a bad move? Nope! Would trading AA for Ben Smith be a good move? Nope!

Why am I giving two extremes? Because I am trying to make the point that saying "trading player X is a mistake" is 100% an incorrect/emotion based statement. You cannot say if trading a player is a mistake until you know what the return is, and unless you are the best player in the NHL, there is always someone out there better then you that would be worth the return.

I dont "want" to trade AA, but if he has value it would be dumb not to see what he brings us back in return. 

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1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Like I said, given his limited minutes and importance of those minutes he was the best. Z had more of both, time and important  time.

AA played sheltered minutes and this guy calls him the best player. Outstanding. 

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Why AA played limited minutes is a thread in and of itself. The dude is flat out the only guy I turned on the set to watch most evenings. People complain about limited scoring last year and dude rides the pine for long stretches of time because he had to pay some sort of dues before getting playing minutes while Sheahan skates like he's done something.  My biggest fear with Holland now is what will he screw up further before he leaves? I really don't want to see the trade he'd make. Just give us another losing season, get rid of Holland and we can start digging out.

 

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57 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Why AA played limited minutes is a thread in and of itself. The dude is flat out the only guy I turned on the set to watch most evenings. People complain about limited scoring last year and dude rides the pine for long stretches of time because he had to pay some sort of dues before getting playing minutes while Sheahan skates like he's done something.  My biggest fear with Holland now is what will he screw up further before he leaves? I really don't want to see the trade he'd make. Just give us another losing season, get rid of Holland and we can start digging out.

 

We need everyone to be two way forwards with a boring game. That's they key to a championship man!

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Why AA played limited minutes is a thread in and of itself. The dude is flat out the only guy I turned on the set to watch most evenings. People complain about limited scoring last year and dude rides the pine for long stretches of time because he had to pay some sort of dues before getting playing minutes while Sheahan skates like he's done something.  My biggest fear with Holland now is what will he screw up further before he leaves? I really don't want to see the trade he'd make. Just give us another losing season, get rid of Holland and we can start digging out.
 

Wings have several young forwards. No of their D prospects other than maybe Cholowski are looking like top pair guys. Smart asset management says trade from a surplus to fill a deficit. If AA, a second, and another prospect other than Svechnikov gets you a young top pair D, it's a good trade.

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I hope it´s true, we need some real top Sergachev/Theodore/Sanheim-like D prospect. And these are expensive. 

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5 hours ago, Dabura said:

Zetterberg was our best player. Zetterberg IS our best player.

AA played a limited role and produced well enough in that limited role -- though, his underlying numbers were mostly ugly. Can he put up big numbers in a bigger, more demanding role? Can he be counted on to go toe-to-toe with top talent every night and win those matchups? Remains to be seen.

At present, AA is a middle-six winger who needs to grow his game. He has gamebreaking ability, but he's not (yet) an all-around great NHLer and we can't be certain he's ever going to become much more than what he is right now. The jury's out on him. (And, to be fair, it's also out on Larkin and Mantha.)

What he said. Well written.

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what top pairing d is worth a AA or Sven

Do you mean who could they get for AA or Svechnikov, or who would they be better off with than them? The answer to the first is I don't know, that's Holland's job to find those deals. The answer to the second is any top pair D is more valuable than a second line winger, or even a first line winger unless it's an elite player like Ovechkin, Kane, Shanahan, etc.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Like I said, given his limited minutes and importance of those minutes he was the best. Z had more of both, time and important  time.

I think what you're trying to say is that Athanasiou was our most efficient scorer, based on points-per-60-minutes.

Edited by Dabura

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:


Do you mean who could they get for AA or Svechnikov, or who would they be better off with than them? The answer to the first is I don't know, that's Holland's job to find those deals. The answer to the second is any top pair D is more valuable than a second line winger, or even a first line winger unless it's an elite player like Ovechkin, Kane, Shanahan, etc.

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true i just dont know if getting rid of AA is the best option not saying he will turn out to be elite status or anything but if AA gets his Defensive game going he could be a hell of a two way player and do we really want to give up scoring since we already are terrible in that department the last time we had anywhere near a 40 goal score was Hossa and there is no one on this team currently that is going to score 40 but if we have mutiple guys can pocket twenty to thirty goals that would be nice and i can see AA a twenty five  goal scorer at the very least no where near elite but good enough to be a productive member of the future its really hard to say we need a top D for sure just want us to have good forwards 

Edited by sjr2012

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59 minutes ago, sjr2012 said:

true i just dont know if getting rid of AA is the best option not saying he will turn out to be elite status or anything but if AA gets his Defensive game going he could be a hell of a two way player and do we really want to give up scoring since we already are terrible in that department the last time we had anywhere near a 40 goal score was Hossa and there is no one on this team currently that is going to score 40 but if we have mutiple guys can pocket twenty to thirty goals that would be nice and i can see AA a twenty five  goal scorer at the very least no where near elite but good enough to be a productive member of the future its really hard to say we need a top D for sure just want us to have good forwards 

I'm out of breath just reading this post :lol:

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, kickazz said:

AA played sheltered minutes and this guy calls him the best player. Outstanding. 

Best? No.

Most improved, or impressive? Yes.

AA has the makings of being a legit top 6 forward (something we have not seen since Dats left, and Tatar/Nyquist are left looking clueless most of the time).

IMHO he's taken Larkin's time in the spotlight...I'm hoping AA continues to mature/improve, and for Larkin to do the same...Might actually have sumthin to look forward to other than the new barn.

Edited by F.Michael
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10 hours ago, kickazz said:

AA played sheltered minutes and this guy calls him the best player. Outstanding. 

No. If you compare the minutes played and the importance of those minutes is what I'm saying. Z is of course our best player, but he average 7 minutes more per game, plus played more important minutes. I'm just saying, minute per minute, AA has proven that if given 20+ minutes per game and constant  PP time, he's be right up there. So easily given the sheltered minuted you speak of, he sure took advantage of them. So comparing his points per minute and lack of important minutes, he was your best player.

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19 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

No. If you compare the minutes played and the importance of those minutes is what I'm saying. Z is of course our best player, but he average 7 minutes more per game, plus played more important minutes. I'm just saying, minute per minute, AA has proven that if given 20+ minutes per game and constant  PP time, he's be right up there. So easily given the sheltered minuted you speak of, he sure took advantage of them. So comparing his points per minute and lack of important minutes, he was your best player.

Except he "wouldn't" be up there because if he faced the competition Zetterberg faced (Patrice Bergeron, Anze Kopitar, Joe Thornton, Mikko Koivu, Ryan Kesler, Jonathan Toews) he would get annihilated and shut down. 

Use your head Lefty.

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I very much doubt he'd get annihilated. Nevermind....Holland will probably trade him for Quincey anyhow.

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I love AA and think he's pretty much the most entertaining player on this team. However, if there's a legit chance at getting a young top pairing dman, I say you gotta move him. As good as he's been and as fun as he is to watch he or Svech would be the first ones I'd look to move. AA still has a lot of work to do to round out his game. He still tries to do too much himself and sort of lacks a team oriented game.

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Defense is part of offense. A large part of the offensive struggles is a lack of guys on the blue line who can get the puck from the other team, make a good transition pass, join the rush and bury chances when they get them.

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So, if you think Vatanen is worth it, put together your "stepped up" offer to convince the Ducks to trade him?

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