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Ok ppl, listen up....THEY WANTED TO GO TO MINNESOTA! Their families had a big impact on where they would go so I don't believe it would have matter what offer Holland put on the table. The Olsen Twins are gone

Still with this s***? Holland did everything he could. And they've played 2 games.

We kicked the tires, but, ultimately, we didn't feel the price was right.

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Jesus. It's a pretty bad time to be a Wings fan I guess, if we're already bashing Holland for making the wrong 2013, 1st or 2nd overall draft choice. Talk about insanity.

Today will be a better day. Waiting for the new GDT and pushing the first game of the season behind.

Hossa is so much better than Franzen it's not even funny.

Why Mc? Because the Monster's hurt. But seriously, why Mc? Because: 1. He's out of options this year and the Wings need to see if he's worth hanging on to. 2. Mrazek is waiver exempt next year, and the year after, at least. So, no need to rush him. 3. Mrazek is playing 60-70% of the games in GR, so leave him there to keep playing. If you've going to call someone up just to ride the pine, it might as well be McCollum.

Not really sure how a small, skilled, playmaking forward would have helped us last night. Especially considering how the small, skilled, playmaking forwards we already have (and whom are all better than Nyquist) were nonexistent last night. If Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Flip couldn't handle the Blues, Nyquist sure as hell couldn't.

Ericsson was our best defenseman last night. Get a grip. The kid has gotten better every year Kronwall on the other hand hasnt played a good game in 3 years but he has a big hit every 15 games so he's great

What is Babcock supposed to do if these guys don't want to skate hard? What can he do if they're so absent-minded out there that they can't even get the fundamentals down? What Babs has wanted to do for awhile was dump guys that don't work and bring in guys that will work hard. Holland hasn't helped there at all, which Babock has openly been "pissed off" about for some time. It's not as simple as just having any old parts and then having a coach magically make them work great as a whole. In reality, sometimes you just have the wrong parts. Any great coach will tell you that. If you've got a lot of guys that don't skate hard, then clearly, you have too many wrong parts. Babcock can't make trades, he can't sign guys and he can't release guys. That's Holland's job, and as far as I'm concerned, he's been doing a piss poor job of it since 2009. He hasn't adjusted to the true reality of the cap era, and he's rested on his laurels. It's not worth debating his past success at this point, because it doesn't mean anything if you can't get the job done in the present. He's been dropping the ball again and again since 2009, and one could say that was when the cap era truly started to have an effect on the Wings. Before that, we had a lot of the pieces already in place, had 2 capable Stanley Cup-winning goaltenders playing for practically nothing because they were old, and we were lucky enough to be the first team to figure out a loophole in the cap. And when the cap kicked off originally, we were paying Z what, $2 million a year or something? We got really lucky when it first kicked off, any way you shake it. Now that we have to operate in a similar fashion as the rest of the league, how have things gone? How has Holland responded? Can you really say he's done all he can to ice the best team the last few years? And bear in mind, I'm not even talking about last summer. He went out and tried and got turned down by the top guys for reasons that were reasonably out of his control. But he had multiple years before that where he failed to address issues and failed to begin setting up for a smooth transition into the post-Lidstrom era. They say great players make the players around them better. In Lidstrom's case, I think he was also making the GM look better. It's obviously going to not be as bad as it was last night every night, but if you can't see how many glaring holes and issues there are in this team, you're not watching hockey. This teams looked shaky the last few years, but Lidstrom really was a player that was great enough alone to be a sort of glue that held the ship together. But he's gone now, and this ship is a mess, and Holland's running out of time to prove he can run a team in the cap era.

THIS. I hate how "safe" our players' jobs seem. You have to perform and earn that right. This isn't a place where vets go to retire comfortably.

There's a phrase, "To whom much is given, much is expected." Red Wings' players are given a lot. An awful lot. They're treated very well by ownership and management, rewarded with contracts that some of us fans say are for too long or for too much money, especially when a player is past his prime. The players that fit into the team's structure are kept here for a long time, usually only leaving when they choose to retire or to move on. They're largely sheltered from the public, they don't have to do all the appearances that players in less-traditional hockey markets have to do. And they're (for the most part) adored by the team's fans. What's expected in return is that they give 100%, play well, win more often than not, and do well in the playoffs. Last night's game was a total failure in every way possible. There was no effort, no emotion, no pride, no appearance of any desire to even be there playing NHL hockey. I don't think that's what we will see all season, far from it. But that was no way to start the season, especially after what transpired this summer and fall. Can you imagine if that was a home game? The stands would have (or should have) been completely empty by the third period. It was unacceptable by anyone's standards and especially for a team that says they expect to compete for the Stanley Cup every season. A couple of you have said the team is due for an overhaul. I couldn't agree more. The locker room seems to have become a country club over the last few seasons, there is no price to be paid for under-performing. Nobody gets traded away, nobody gets let go, nobody gets benched. Helm's line was the team's best line in way too many games last year. Other guys continually disappear for long stretches but continue to play here. Players who don't "fit the system" aren't looked at as possible acquisitions. Now, what we have is a collection of redundant players and a team that can't adapt to an opponent who outworks the Wings or who can shut down their puck-possession style. They couldn't dump and chase if their lives depended on it. An aggressive forecheck is out of the question, 3 or 4 players excepted. And there's no real hope coming up through the ranks. Yes, Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, and Sheahan are all NHL-ready or very close, but what are those guys going to do when they get here? 3rd line, maybe fill in on the 2nd line? We don't have anyone like Tarasenko, Skinner, Henrique, Andrew Shaw... someone who can quickly step in and produce at an NHL level. Andersson and Sheahan project as 3rd liners and Nyquist and Tatar have talent but are small. Same as the roster we have now. It's time for an organizational shift, this season or this off-season.

I miss the lockout.

Didn't answer? Heck, we didn't even know what the question was. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but it is a bit foggy out.

Might not score as much, but he is a much better two way player. I understand we couldn't have both, and that Hossa would have cost considerably more, but Hossa is a better player than Franzen. Hossa might not be as good in the playoffs as Franzen, but let's not act like Hossa is Thornton, Hossa has the same PPG in the playoffs as Datsyuk...

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I'd like to move for a dman of the future. I'd see what we could do with Phoenix. They are the perfect trading partner at this point. They have a massively deep D and need some better forwards. I would try to get one of: Brandon Gormley David Rundblad Connor Murphy All these guys are pretty much like Smith in that they are ready for NHL but not much experience. I think one of these guys could become a big part of our blueline for the future rather than trading for an aging player. We AREN'T going to get a current top Dman - we don't have the assets. I think the Franzen/Flip kind of deal would work here. Or Tatar + High Pick would also work. I'd be very against trading our first rounder this early though. EDIT: Hell I'd even throw in a vet like Cleary or Bert on top of a fair deal if they wanted them to reduce the logjam at forward. This type of trade is the only thing that makes sense to me. We aren't one dman away from cup contender. Making this trade makes us better for the future, not today, but it would be a price that is affordable.

Well, I sure wish it was Mrazek coming up instead of McCollum.... Also, with Ericsson questionable, I guess we'll see Kindl.... I'd rather they call Ouellet or Sproul.

You're overcomplicating things with alternate universe mumbo-jumbo. Holland traded a 1st round pick for Quincey. For this, he ought to go to jail, or be punched really hard in the arm. "Yeah, but if he hadn't--" but he did. Which is why this thread exists. "Yeah, but if this thread hadn't been made..."

And Larry Murphy.

It's not because we lost, it's because of the WAY that we lost.

I'm partial to Damien "We'll give you a nickname when you do something that proves you belong in the NHL" Brunner, or is that too long? Call him WGYANWYDSTPYBITN for short?

Wow, rough game However a positive note. The Griffins game today had a bench clearing brawls, goalies faught too. 13 players ejected and the Griffins score a franchise record 11 goals. All against the Chicago farm team, Rockford. I'm replaying the fights right now

First star: Jimmy Howard Second and third stars: The left and right breasts of the chick behind Babcock. I'm a straight chick and couldn't care less about boobs, but at least it's been something fun to talk about during this mess.