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If by so.ething else you mean one of the worst teams in league history, then yes they are.

Sounds like a solid FlashyG photoshop opportunity.

The Las Vegas Regrets™

That is all well and good if Cleary somehow has knees again. I'm not rooting for him to fail, but Tomas Jurco can do better than 20 points on the third line, along with everything else he provides that is superior to Cleary. Even if Cleary is healthy, he's pushing better players off the roster. That has always been my continuous problem with the deal.

Tuskan Raiders! Yes!!!!!

Las Vegas Bettmans. Nevada Follies. Las Vegas Mistakes. Las Vegas Regrets Las Vegas Tuskan Raiders

Cleary used to be a very good role player. Now his knees are shot and he can't skate. Unless he found some magic pills that healed them, he shouldn't be anywhere near an NHL ice surface. If they really wanted him back he should have gotten a tryout deal. Now I'd he doesn't make it the Wings are stuck with 2.5 mil in cap hit because you know he'll get his 10 games in.

I have a ton of respect for Cleary. But I'm completely divided on this issue. Part of me wants Danny to have a real strong season, but then the other half of me wants several prospects - Jurco and Mantha mainly, to play better than him in preseason so they force managements hand into playing them full time in the NHL this season. More so for Jurco than Mantha, but you get the point. I don't want Cleary to fail or suck though. But part of me feels its time to move on and properly make the young guns transition. Jurco is a big part of that IMO, and if we can get nearly a full season of Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco, we'll be a stronger team.

LOL Cleary is absolutely an NHL calibre player. If he comes to camp healthy, he should without a doubt be capable of producing as a third line support guy. The big question is whether or not he is finally healthy... I don't like this signing any more than any other Wings fan, but I do have a ton of respect for Dan Cleary and for the Wings management (Ken Holland) for honoring their handshake deal from last year. I find it very difficult to believe that some Wings "fans" are actually hoping Cleary fails. ******* ridiculous... I hope he proves all the haters wrong and plays 50+ games and puts up 20+ points.

The Designated Drivers. The High Rollers. The Goodfellas. The Stool Pigeons. Or after a couple years they'll be simply know as a Bust.

Good g r business though. Hey you wanna go see the las Vegas strippers? Hel Ya!! Wait what the he'll is this?

Las Vegas 51ers (area 51 ).

Then stop reading it, problem solved. I don't have the nerves nor time to explain something so obvious.

that'll show em

Yeah I've read that too even with your mediocre seasons - don't worry ours weren't much better - your attendance went up and I think your team has done a tremendous job given all the difficult circumstances. The amount of defensive talent that Nashville seems to produce is really top notch. But I still think Laviolette has been the wrong choice, his run and gun firing on all cylinders wears thin quickly. The potential Seattle owners (Paul Allen ? ) have been on record saying that they want a NBA team first and then they are going to look at a NHL team we've had this story before and everyone saw how it turned out i.e The Thrashers. But knowing the allmighty BOG Seattle will get a team so that's that. Las Vegas would also be very dangerous for players, referees all it takes is one serious phone call from a casino boss with connections to the mozarella side of things and the game will be decided in no time and there is nothing the NHL can do about it. It's really unbelievable how a league can talk about expansion instead of relocation although there are already two teams which will be relocated in the not so distant future. Another team to keep a really close look on would be the Ottawa Senators their owner went from billionaire to "only" millionaire and is cutting the budget back every year and yet we hear expansion talk. What the NHL needs would be the exact opposite put teams into markets where hockey can and has succeeded (i.e QC, Hamilton) I still can't believe why tzhe BOG is always listening to Bettman's lies and his stupid grow the game crap. The game doesn't need to grow it just needs stable markets and a great on ice product (which has been watered down since 2005 ).

The Las Vegas I'm-Not-Watching-NHL-Hockey-Anymore-If-They-Expand-To-34-Teams-ers

Wow, thanks for asking.I'm doing great. I can still hold my kids, play with them in the pool, and zipline with them at Whistler. My parents and my brothers family joined us for a week in San Diego, then all flew to our home in Washington. We just took them to Whistler where we all, including my 75 yr old mumsy, did the longest tallest zip line in North America . (The kids did the bobsled run too, along with my wife) My 13 yr old niece is putting together a little vacation vid, check it out (the older kids are my nephew and nieces, young one is Olivia , Lilja seemed to be sleeping a lot) http://youtu.be/kYuR1bdtTuI AND my life long friend from growing up in Michigan did an awesome Ice Bucket Challenge vid (he's Air Force) :

We wouldn't have to change the logo, just put a foot next to it in a kicking motion.

We would need to change our name to the Detroit tire kickers

Las Vegas Slots. That name should be fun!

Las Vegas Hangovers

I don't think anyone is arguing against constructive criticism, but the absolute vitriol that spews on this board sometimes usually is frustrating most all level-headed fans and we're getting a little trigger happy. Another thing I'm getting a little tired of is comparing Holland to Yzerman and/or Nill. Apples and oranges. The Lightening and Stars had almost nowhere to go but up to begin with. They also aren't facing the same adversity as Holland - little cap space and an unwillingness to trade with the Wings. These are pretty sizable barriers to contend with. Also, neither has the pressure from the fans that the Wings organization has. I'm not a Holland fanboy by any means, but let's be reasonable. And since neither Nill or Yzerman is available to Detroit, what's a better option than Holland at this point?

Great post, krsmith! You've hit a lot of the salient points that beeded hitting. I actually think this streak is more impressive than the Bruins' streak because they never had to contend with the salary cap the Wings do. Maintaining their level of success from the pre salary cap era to now is impressive, and to sustain it is moreso, imho. Today's NHL has been striving for parity amongst teams for years, and the case could be made that, as a result, it has, in some ways, become a parody of itself. Ken Holland has done a good job steering the Wings through the transition period, despite everything. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of a trade is higher for the the Wings with any given team than anyone else because so many folks seem to want to see the Wings fail, and no GM wants to be blamed for being the guy that helped the Wings climb back on top. The injuries the Wings have had the last few years were ridiculous, and at this point, it almost feels like probability is swinging back towards a healthy Wings squad this year. Kr and Dabura have both made great points, and the negativity is getting old. Am I happy about the Cleary signing? No, but I can respect why Ken did it (MUCH better than how the Sharks crapped on Thornton and Marleau, and I'm no fan of either, but that was bush league). I am hoping Cleary plays well in the games he's in (that ice bucket video was top notch). The prospect pool is the best I've seen since I started watching the Wings back in 1983 as a 12 year old. The future is bright, imho, and the team is going to hit an upswing soon. Let's enjoy the ride.

I really wish people would stop with this, "well we haven't done ANYTHING in the past 5 years", blah, blah, blah... How many times does it have to be said and how the hell is it not obvious to some of you that the Detroit Red Wings are in the midst of their second rebuild in the past two decades, without once missing the playoffs?... That is not that impressive at all... I mean, most teams in the league have done that haven't they?... NOPE, not even close... The Wings streak is at 23 consecutive seasons without missing the playoffs, after that there is the Sharks at 10, Penguins at 8, Bruins 7, Blackhawks 6, Kings 5, Rangers 4, Blues 3, and no other team has made the playoffs more than the past 2 seasons straight. That is absolutely insane when you actually think about it... To continue to make the playoffs for this long, through two rebuilds is nothing short of astonishing, and I'm willing to bet that the Wings make it at least another 7 years to beat the Boston Bruins 29 year playoff streak from '67-'96. People that do not see the brightness at the end of this tunnel, that has been the past 5 years, are pessimists to their truest form. How can you not be thrilled as a Red Wings fan, not only because of the "stupid, not-at-all-impressive streak", but because of all of the talent that we have coming up over the next few seasons. To say that there is no way that Jurco can turn out to be as good as Datsyuk is very bleak in my opinion. Jurco has accomplished more than Datsyuk had accomplished at the tender age of 21. Jurco has already got his first taste of NHL action and played quite well for a rookie, while Datsyuk wasn't even drafted until he was 20 and didn't play his first season in the NHL until he was 23. They both have great hands, obviously Pav gets the edge there though since he has better hands than anyone that has ever played the game. Jurco definitely has the size advantage, as he is 3 inches taller and already closing in on 200 lbs., whereas Pav is around the same now but came into the league as a rookie somewhere between 175-180 lbs. I also think that Nyquist has the potential to become somewhat of a Zetterberg lite. Nyquist is slightly behind Zetterberg in production at the same age but he does have a slightly better point percentage. In Zetterberg's first two seasons he put up 87 points in 140 games, 0.621 points per game, while in Nyquist' first three partial seasons, he put up 61 points in 97 games, 0.628 points per game. Gus has the same drive and determination that makes Hank such a world class player, and he also seems to have the same type of leadership qualities. They're both approximately the same height and weight when they were the same age, while Hank has put on some muscle over the years, Gus still has plenty of room to grow as well. The Wings definitely have a few potential future stars up front in Nyquist, Jurco and Mantha, but to go along with that I think we have much more depth coming than we have ever had before. Sheahan, Tatar, Pulkkinen and Athanasiou are all potential top 6 players, and Nastasiuk, Bertuzzi and Callahan could be great 3rd and 4th line players. I'm not quite sure where Janmark, Nosek, and Frk will fit in but they're quality players as well. Then you have guys like Larkin and Turgeon that we just drafted that I think could be along their way in about five years as well. On the back end we also have a few potential future stars in Smith, DeKeyser and Sproul as well as guys like Ouellet, Backman, Marchenko and Jensen. And of course between the pipes, we have Mrazek coming along quite nicely, and he could be a future top 5 goalie in this league. I realize that all of this, as of right now, is just "potential" but with as many high end prospects that we have, at least a few of them have to turn into quality players. We have one of the best prospect pools in the entire league because we have one of the best general managers in the league, as well as top scouts and development teams in the league (credit to Holland for putting this management team together). I'll never understand some of the constant negative attitudes in here, but to each their own. What a boring forum this would be without you guys lol.

Uh... So call a guy out for going to a team you doubt has a chance at winning the cup, then criticize his desire to win? I don't get it... He was basically the most consistent forward on the team last season. He was a welcome addition in my eyes. If he's healthy, I'd want the guy back.