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So Cox most likely pulls this Mantha thing out of his ass, and LGWs turns it into bat-s*** crazy trade scenarios. Classic. The Wings probably have no interest in trading Mantha. If they didn't want to move him at the deadline, I doubt that they'd have gone 180 on the kid in three months.

They didn't "drop the ball" on anything... They refused to trade him, for good reason, and they're not all of a sudden trying to trade him. Mantha isn't going anywhere. He will get another season in Grand Rapids and likely push for a spot in Detroit in 2016-17. My bet is he scores at or close to a point per game next season for the Griffins. People are acting like he's a bust after one season of pro...

Put me in the group of people that would prefer to trade one of Nyquist or Tatar before either Larkin or Mantha.

Exactly. Back man was told he needed to get stronger from day one and didn't, then went home when he faced adversity. Janmark is just a so so prospect whoay never play a game in North America, much less be a good NHL player. These were not prominent prospects, and regardless of what anyone thinks they know about negotiations, there's no legitimate reason to believe that Holland just said "uhhhhh take this guy too!!!!" when a lesser package would get the job done. I know people love most of our prospects and think that 4 mediocre pieces = a good player, but the reality is trades aren't nearly as easy to make as most fans pretend.

In fairness to Holland this conversation would likely be going quite differently if he didn't get a season ending injury. Cole was exactly the type of player the Wings needed going into the playoffs.

Ya, but which "prospect" are you willing to give up (for free) for Cleary to have that #14 spot? Jurco? Pulkkinen? Ferraro? Callahan? Who else? Point isn't we'd rather worry about upgrading the D rather than being upset if Cleary comes back, point is, if Holland cannot make a deal and Franzen makes a comeback to play, you are waiver 2 players to keep Cleary in that #14 spot. Ferraro will not clear waivers again...Jurco, Pulkkinen will never clear waivers, even once. Callahan is a favorite of Blashill's, so he will fight to keep him off waivers... siging Cleary will destroy some of the future of this team...lose Ferraro and Callahan, but hey, Cleary is only the #14 guy, so no biggie...

So is it your contention that Nil asked for the pick and Backman, and Holland said "no, we want to give you Janmark too?"

wonder what happened to Mantha to make him "touchable" now...last two trade deadlines he was "untouchable." If Holland is trading Mantha our 1st, Smith and Weiss, it damn well better be for a Ryan Suter type defenseman, NOT a Phanuef-type defenseman. I am assuming that Mantha is not horrible, but of all our top end prospects, someone has to go to get what we need, and he is the one? Maybe? I mean with AA, Bertuzzi, Larkin and the chance of us landing Hyman, someone has to be the odd man out, but damn, I sure was looking forward to Larkin and Mantha being the next dynamic duo... Again, like I said, if he's dealing Mantha and our 1st along with Smith and Weiss, it better be a blockbuster coming back....if it's only Phanuef (or similar) and tie that in with the possible re-signing of you know who, I would say our off season would be taking a bad turn...

None of those posters would disagree with your description of those players. It just so happens that the standards in Detroit for retiring numbers is higher.

The Wings really dropped the ball on this. Refused to trade him, then threw him under the bus (Thanks, Jimmy D!) which I imagine further lowers his trade value. I'm not sure what we'll get for him, if anything, now.

Maybe in hindsight, but Cole would have been a difference maker for us in the playoffs. Also, let's not pretend Holland added players in just because there friends, that's just ridiculous. You value prospects too highly, they really aren't worth anything unless you have a top 10 pick or until they prove themselves. You said Wings were going to regret Jarnkrok yet I just looked at his stats and we aren't missing anything.

Lindsay - 11 all star appearances 1 Art Ross trophy winner 4 stanley cups Named 1st all star team 7 times Lead league in goals, assists, and points in different seasons Delveccio - 13 all star appearances 3 Lady Bing trophies 3 Stanley cups 25 seasons with the Red Wings - Played with no other team in the league 1281 total points in career Abel - Lead league in goals 48/49 3 All star appearances 3 Stanley cups 1 Hart Trophy Each of them has more all star appearances (Abel had just as many), more stanley cups, has either an art ross or hart trophy, or passed the thousand point mark. The point is they've done something unique. Extremely unique. Datsyuk hasn't won a Hart, an Art Ross, nor has he gotten to the "3 cups" mark. You're right, there weren't many teams and hence competition was less. But what's also true is the players now are more skilled and its a faster game and Datsyuk was born into this fast era and is a part of it. The league has changed but so has the skill set of the players. Now just to play devils advocate- If Pav truly was a generational player (I personally believe he was in terms of his stick handling) then how come he wasn't elected to the all star game more than 4 times in his 13 seasons? How come he was never named onto the 1st all star team? Now the question arises, was he truly generational then? What really defines generational? Fedorov had 6 all star appearances, named 1st all star team, won 3 cups, 2 Selkes, 1 Hart Trophy, 1 Ted Lindsay award. He's technically achieved more in 13 years with the red wings than Datsyuk has in his 13 years. Sergei Fedorov achieved almost every item that Lindsay, Adel and Delveccio achieved individually! In terms of achievements, he's even closer than Pav. But what screwed Sergei? He left the franchise. Screwed the loyalty card over. Something that Abel, Delveccio, Lindsay DID have and actually still do. I see Ted Lindsay at tons of Red Wings games even to this day. I was at his book signing 3 years ago at the Joe before a game. The point is in the old era, these guys, they did it all. But so did Fedorov, in a newer era. Unfortunately Feds lost on the loyalty card. But if Feds could do it in a newer era then so should the next guy retired in the NEWEST era (year 2004 and beyond). On paper Pav doesn't really fit the category. Had he ended up winning the Hart Trophy in 2009 I'd probably say he's a shoe in. If he wins another cup (as many as the other guys up on the rafters, I'd also say he's a shoe in. For now tho all I can say is he "has a pretty good shot". And the loyalty he has for the org and love from the fans gives him a better chance than it does for Feds. I can't see Illitch retiring #91 when so many fans dislike the guy. It would be pretty awkward. But still their decision so who knows. So now back to this "bar" thing - It seems like guys up on the rafters have (1) - atleast 3 cups. (2)- Had organizational loyalty, and (3)- won unique individual awards. Fedorov has the cups and won the awards but lost on the loyalty. Datsyuk has 2 cups, organizational loyalty (we almost freaked out in 2013 thinking he'd leave us for Russia and lots of fans had great disdrain towards Datsyuk for that), and zero MVPs or point/goal scoring titles. Ok well say the 3 Selkes are pretty frickin awsome. So he's ok on the awards stuff. So Feds doesn't meet the bar (threshold) because he didn't meet #(2) and Datsyuk doesn't meet the bar (threshold) because he didn't meet #(1). Given all that, I think Datsyuk is closer to having his jersey retired than Feds because he still has a shot at another cup and building upon his legacy. Feds? Well that guy left us and hes long retired from the NHL. There's no changing his case. It's already written.

Agreed. Like the players that are up there, as time goes by people will start to appreciate them like they deserve.

Aren't they technically "don't wannabes"?

Because he put hipsters in quotations I read it as people with wax mustaches are not real hipsters. I guess they're wannabes.

Boy this kid must have pissed Devellano off.

Bills on ball caps should be curved, flat bills make you look like you're on your way to a Make A Wish event

Mantha's issue isn't scoring or conditioning, it's playing hard every shift. Sometimes that can be learned, sometimes not. Wings won't trade him or the first for a second pair D or second line forward though, I don't think. If there's a deal involving one or both, it will be big, and if it's for Phaneuf Toronto will need to retain salary

Agree 100%, unless we can land a top pairing dman in/entering their prime.

If Kenny is giving up Mantha and a 1st can't he do better than Phaneuf? I hope so.

I wonder if since Blashill has more of a say now, he made it clear the Mantha wasn't the prospect we thought. He would know him the best of anyone in the organization.

These threads pop up periodically, regarding either Fedorov, or Osgood, or Zetterberg, or whomever, and I always say the same thing: if there's enough hesitancy among part of the fan-base that a debate is even warranted, then the player in question probably shouldn't get their jersey retired. I can't speak for the legends from before my time, but as far as Yzerman and Lidstrom go, both cases were overwhelmingly unanimous.

This forum has sunk to a new low thanks to the likes of you. Datsyuk is an amazing player, one of the best currently playing in the world today. Any sane hockey fan or expert OR PLAYER would agree.

Exactly what you'd expect out of a beardless pantywaist.

As I am understanding it, his problem with the beards is that the players look different with them (during the playoffs, or at least the latter stages) than without them (the rest of the time). I would guess that real men, such as Hank, who wear them year-round, are not included in his "play-off beard ban". In the interest of creating peace and harmony between the two sides, I suggest that when players are interviewed, bearded or not, the network put the player's name at the bottom of the screen because, you know... literacy is an actual thing.