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It's true LeftWinger - I didn't necessarily like the 5 year term either, but Darren Helm is an extremely valuable forward that creates roster flexibility unlike anyone else. He is our best penalty killer plus our best (or second best) forechecker. He has been useful on the first line, and he's obviously been great on the 4th line. Having forwards like this is invaluable, especially in the playoffs when you win or lose games after you win or lose individual matchups. This undeniably happened against Tampa Bay in 2015 (who went to game 6 of the Finals) when Luke Glendenning got hurt and missed the last two periods of game 4, after completely suppressing the "kid line" to that point entirely. I truly believe the legend of Tyler Johnson may have never been a thing if not for that injury. Daren Helm has that ability plus more to offer offensively. Would I like him more at $2,950,000? Of course. But that isn't the math or the question that matters... It was widely reported that he took a hometown discount and had offers over $4,000,000 to leave - so we made it up on term. If the question to me is you can have Helm at $3.85 or no Helm, I take what I know considering I just lost my best player who was also a Center. So if the "number" everyone seems comfortable with (which basically equates to the difference of a league min contract) isn't that big a deal - I can't really accept that one guy is preventing all of Jurco, Mantha, Anthanasiou and Bertuzzi from a job in the NHL.

Yeah, it sucks we're going to lose these guys because of the Helm signing... Stop being so f***ing over dramatic... Both DeKeyser and Mrazek will be signed, likely before their arbitration hearings, and Helm's contract will not effect it in any way, shape, or form...

Glenny should and is 4th line. Z should be 3rd line winger, Miller should be 13th forward. There are other ways to make your team better, don't suppress more deserving kids by signing players that bring less to the table.

I wanted to go back to a point someone made in another thread about how people who use advanced analytics are acting like they know better than the coaches. This is not true at all. There's things in Blashill's coaching which makes sense and actually works and nobody is refuting the point. The perfect example is Brenden Smith who was sheltered and thrived under Blashill. Another example is demoting Ericsson to third line and promoting Dekeyser to first line. I'd say most of the stuff put out on ice is just fine and obviously Blash and the analytics are lining up in that regard. The issue comes in where certain MINORITY of the players are being misused and that's where the criticism starts to fall on Blash. Right now there's a few players being misused and those include Glendening, Zetterberg and Drew Miller. So the next time someone comes about with wacky arguments that "Oh look at the analytics people trying to act like they know better". Stop seeing s*** in black and white, that's not what people are trying to say. They are just pointing out some of the weakest links in the lineup that need to be changed in order to make the team go from being an 8 seed to something better. "Your team is only as strong as your weakest player"

Ohhhh, THAT'S your point... That wasn't clear the last 500 posts you've made regarding Helm since he was signed 25 days ago... Holland proved with this signing that Helm IS part of this teams future, and no, none of the kids you're talking about bring the same element Helm does, maybe with the exception of Athanasiou. Want to b**** about contracts and players taking up roster spots that aren't part of the future? How about Miller, Ott and Vanek... Helm is here for the long haul and you might as well get used to it... Or maybe we (myself in particular) should just get used to your constant b****ing, because hey, that's what you do... Same with Franzen, same with Nyquist, same with Ericsson, same with Howard, etc, etc, etc...

Man, talk about being over the top, everything is the 6 degrees of Darren Helm with you. Its like now that Franzen is done you need a new whipping boy for everything. Mrazek being offered what he is being offered is not because of Helm, it's because of his collapse mid season. You dont give 5mil to a guy that was bailed out by his backup. I would have to imagine that even if Helm walked these offers would be no different. An offer in a negotiation? You make it sound like Holland slept with his wife, seriously relax.

If Helm wasn't paid $4M there would be more money available to offer Mrazek. Period, simple. That signing directly affected this negotiation. But hey, we sure got a fast 4th liner who will get top minutes because he gets top 6 money for 13th forward stats. Screw the future, we have Darren ******* Helm! That's the Juck ******* pott right there! Screw AA, screw Mantha, screw Jurco and Pulkkinen, f*** our future for Helm! Oh and Howard can always be our #1. Darren and Jimmy, plan the parade! Nyquist was a wasted signing and Helm is too! That's $9M and two roster spots that can help our future...but hey, let's settle for bad to mediocre.

PVD you have to take it into context. You can't compare Tatar to Glendening in the "all situations" chart. You would have to compare Tatar to Nyquist, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and all the other players who get similar time of 5 on 5 time. In that regard, Tatar is obviously the best possession player. Glendening's best comparison is probably someone like Darren Helm who gets PK time as well. In that regard Helm is the superior possession player. As far as the all situations numbers are concerned, take it this way: Glendening is being put out in the defensive zone more often but is struggling. There are players in the league who have similar if not worse defensive zone starts than him who aren't struggling nearly as much and are on worse teams than the Red Wings (I've already posted this chart in the other thread). But to me this isn't about Glendening, it's more about the entire team. If it's a 3-2 game with 1 minute left to go in the favor of Red Wings, this chart makes me think that Glendening should not be on ice to take the faceoff as he struggles in the defensive zone. I'd much rather put another center to take the faceoff even with a slightly lower faceoff win %. Because what really is the difference between 54% and 53% faceoff and first guy being Glendening and the second player being Datsyuk? Finally, there actually is no correlation to Glendening's zone starts and his possession numbers. In 2013 when he entered the league, he had about 50% defensive zone starts compared to last year where he had 70% defensive zone starts but his Corsi was only SLIGHTLY better in 2013 (but he played far less games in 2013 so it probably would have ended up being the same). It was still far far below the team average. So the issue with Glendening is not because of his zone starts, it's because of his inherent lack of possession skills. He's simply not a good possession player, regardless of what situation he's in.

I used Carbonneau as an example of a guy that had the Selke's but didn't score enough, I suggested Datsyuk likely did score enough...while his scoring is low on its own, combined with Selke's will likely be enough. I don't get the suggestions that he wasn't as good as Crosby that I've seen a lot of here. I don't disagree, but why does that matter? Do you need to be better than Crosby to get into the HOF? Crosby will likely be seen as the best player to have started his career within the last 20 years....so he'll be in his first year of eligibility....so will a few others that weren't considered as good as him and there will be more that still get in as well, but take more time.

Are Nyquist and Pulkkinen studs too? Because there placements are right in the same area.

I saw that on twitter. But what I noticed wasn't Tatar. I noticed Glendening. At this point I'd keep Tatar over Nyquist.

More evidence that Tomas Tatar should NOT be traded. Dude's a stud.

D Datsyuk will get in because he's flashy. And people go ga ga for flashy players.

This list is a joke, just a few "rankings" that baffle: Arizona - 7th Buffalo - 9th Winnipeg - 10th Chicago - 12th Toronto - 13th Carolina - 14th Anaheim - 19th LA - 20th So according to this, the management teams of Anaheim and LA are not at the level of teams such as Arizona, Buffalo, and Winnipeg as those teams just ooz of success. This list seem to have a bias towards teams that tank. In what world is Chicago (as much as I hate them) ranked lower the Arizona???

Yeah on the PK he has the most goals against on our team (and is bottom in the league). Abdelkader has the lowest. This past season Abby was on ice for only 9 power play goals against while Glendening was on ice for 27 goals against. Glendening plays more on the PK so if you adjusted his and Abby's PK minutes for a simple scale like "PK goals against per minute of PK" - Glendog is twice as bad as Abby. (A rate of 0.13 for Glendog and 0.07 for Abby). Abby also happens to have the least shots against while on the PK while Glendog has the most shots against on the PK per 60 minutes. Abby might be the most underrated PKer on this team to be honest.

I couldn't help but think of this back and forth when Schenn signed today with Phoenix for 2 years at 2.25 total (1.25 caphit). Signing him for 5mil per year would have been a MASSIVE over-payment.

Again just because he doesn't generate shots doesn't mean he isn't good defensively. Wings defensive zone style is to sit back and allow outside shots and get into lanes. If Glendening had great possession numbers the way he is utilized he'd be Zetterberg in his prime. Giving up a lot of shots doesn't mean you're not doing your job defensively. To say Glendening isn't good defensively is to go against every knowledgeable coach he's ever had You can really see who on this board goes to Winging it in Mowtown... As soon as you realize those people on that site are nothing but fans you become humbled and realize you're not more knowledgeable than NHL coaches and managers. I'm not going to just cast off all advanced analytics but the data is so skewed on a team to team basis. If we were a Stanley cup contender this data would be alarming. This is a bad hockey team and the data reflects that more so than a single player. What a strange coincidence, every player that isn't used defensively has outstanding numbers and every defensive player has terrible ones. I guess that can only mean those guys are trash and Jurco and smith are elite. If you ran your team based off these stats you wouldn't have a good team

If you need evidence so bad why not Google it yourself? Not everyone on the internet cares about trying to convince random people of what they already know. This team has had identity and depth issues for a few years now. It is of zero surprise that Helm had to log a lot of top 6 minutes. Despite the fact this team is nowhere near contention, at least now there is enough depth to have actual top six players play in the top six. I'd fully expect to see Helm back on the third line this season. If not, the management of this team will just continue to show incompetence.

I wouldn't say Helm is definitively the best 3rd line center in the league, but I do think he's one of the best (if not the best). The stats are there to prove it. What evidence do you want? I'm not going to compare every 3rd line center in the league, but if you wanted to take the time to do so, I guarantee Helm would stack up quite well with the competition. Hahaha give it a f***ing rest Lefty. You of all people shouldn't be gloating about being "right". You've got to be one of the worst for trying to pass your personally bias on a player as fact. Once you start to hate on a player (for whatever reason), there's no amount of reasoning or facts that will change your mind. You weren't right on Franzen, or anyone else. In fact, every one of those players are better than you'll ever give them credit for and Helm is no different...

There wasn't any real reason to turn on Franzen anyways. He was a beast in his prime and even better in the playoffs. After he got older he was still a very good top six player and is pretty much the exact player we are missing right now The point is people on this forum will turn on anyone regardless of facts just so it follows their own made up narrative

I'd give my opinion on Hasek vs Roy vs Brodeur but Puckloo might call to have me lynched. I couldn't vote because solely Osgood wasn't an option. I wasn't even a big fan of the guy, but it's very hard to deny the numbers he put up for the team as a whole, and it's about individual team effort, heart, and contribution that puts you among the legends in the rafters.

$1.8 million for a Top 25 Face-off man in the league? I'll take it. Say what you will about his skill with the puck, but among the players used regularly as centers for their teams (i.e. - took 500+ faceoffs last year) he was #24. That's pretty good.

Why are people bitching about this?? Does everyone forget that his injury lost us the 2015 series with the lightning. He owned tyler Johnson ala 2009 zetterberg on Crosby. People need to remember that it isn't 2006 anymore and 1.8 million for a 4th liner is not a bad deal.

Can't wait to give up Tatar for an aging trash d-man who's "tough"

This is Hollands expression during the time-out after pulling Mrazek. It looks like the physical embodiment of his favorite phrase: "We like our team".