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If ONLY we had an enforcer to keep that herniated disc of Z's in line... ...and to make sure that pesky groin of Weiss' would be held accountable... ...or that Howard's knee wouldn't dare tweak itself... For the record. Detroit (as of yesterday) sat at 10th in the league in terms of Man-Games-Lost-To-Injury, at 110. The #8 team, Montreal, is at 122 games lost. Yet, Montreal currently ranks 3rd in fighting majors at 22. Columbus is 5th in games lost to injury, 130, and 7th in fighting majors at 20. Tampa Bay is 7th in games lost at 123, and 13th in the league with 17 fighting majors. Toronto leads the league in fighting majors at 26, yet is only 2 spots back from Detroit with 97 games lost. I just did the math. The average # of games lost to injury by any team this year is a smidge over 93 games (93.066666667, etc). Detroit's at 110, which is above average, but not astonishingly so, especially given that Detroit is tied for dead last in the league at 4 fighting majors. As it stands, the statistics don't necessarily agree that having players who are more willing to "enforce" (a.k.a. willing to drop the gloves) translates into less games lost due to injury...

You mean like how Orpik thought twice about hitting skilled winger Loui Eriksson because of all the big, bad, enforcers that Boston has? Or perhaps how James Neal didn't even consider kneeing Marchand in the head during the same game for the same reason? And certainly nobody would consider taking liberties with Phil Kessel with Orr and McLaren on the ice for Toronto. I completely agree with everything you just said.

As I recall, we lost 10 games out of 11. We called up every defenseman we had in GR, and had to borrow Stafford from them even though he wasn't technically signed as a Wing. We went a game with: Cheli-Lilja Lebda-Quincey Meech-Stafford Then in the first period, Cheli broke his leg. Hasek (our #1) was injured, but at least Osgood was a fabulous 1a. Cleary was also injured during this time. He was a productive cog in the Red Wheel at that time. Like you said, we won the Cup. This gave us unlimited sound bites in which we could use the standard cliches involving "adversity" and other such watch words. At that time, we were fortunate enough to have won games early on so we had a bit of a cushion. Now the injury bug is kicking us earlier. The last few games I've seen the effort needed, but between called-off goals and posts and head-standing goalies and just plain bad puckluck, we're not winning. Things are bound to turn around. I'll worry in April.

Oh Sheahan called up? Better put him on the 1st line while keeping one of our best players (Tatar) in the bottom 6...smh

So you go from my claim on hits per game to fighting majors. Cool. Enforcers dont necessarily have to fight they also put aggression towards opponents through hits. And it's a known fact in hockey (if you play, which i feel doubtful seeing your reactions to a basic aspect of hockey; aggression, aka what the sport is KNOWN for) fighting and hits can curve momentum. Hits can send messages to opponents. Hits make people think twice before opponents go after your star players. Hits are a non-verbal way of saying " you hit my guy, i'll hit you and embarrass you." Case and point http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLX3299cVEg Laperriere hit Lidstrom. Downey took revenge. Lappy was a mouse the rest of the series. Wings went on to continue dominating.

At least Mrazek's Winter Classic pads are awesome

Samuelsson and Cleary are both substantially less valuable than Tootoo, Eaves, and Glendening. Scratching them both on a regular basis would be an improvement.

Could anyone stop the 2005-2006 Red Wings?

When we have Zetterberg, Helm, Weiss, DeKeyser, Howard, Franzen, Abdelkader back in the lineup, in addition to the other players who have missed significant time due to injury like Ericsson, Datsyuk and Bertuzzi, and we still aren't scoring and are losing consistently, then I will get concerned.

I want John Scott for Christmas.

I didn't.We were great in the Playoffs playing kids,while Sammy and Bert were in the press box.Not much later the same kids won Calder Cup,but the same old geezers got an advantage over the same kids

2 threads about enforcers. Its official. Its mid-season for the Red Wings. This happens every......single......year...... lol

It's a "Franzen thing" to sit out games when you're completely healthy, and your team is struggling, and you're playing well, and you've just been made an assistant captain while Zetterberg is out? Yeah, he does that all the time.

And....he's still giving it to a gorgeous rich woman.

Ericsson "went" after McL right after his hit on Kronwall... and after that game he was out with the shoulder injury... He has no balls and this team is really missing some muscles. I don't expect Kenny to trade for the size and muscles... he will "adressed" it during the summer with FA's and in september, we will have the same team without BALLS... Good luck with staying healthy

Injuries aside, we should still be able to beat the Florida Panthers, twice. esteef

Father Time is currently kicking their ass.

I haven't seen anything from Shehan that's been impressive but I honestly haven't seen him much. Hope he can give a good impression. Detroit Griffins next game, huh?

Do people forget how awful this team was in February 2008 when the injury bug hit? And that is a roster that went on to win a cup. The overreacting by some in this thread is absolutely hilarious.

Man, you guys. It's not even that I necessarily disagree. But you're just so predictably silly about this. Yeah, no one ever takes a run at your guys when you've got a tough guy in your lineup. (Lemieux-on-Draper, McLeod-on-Kronwall.) And yeah, a fourth line with Orr and Westgarth and McGratton on it is definitely something we should do. Then, when the offense dries up even more and opposing teams exploit that unholy clusterf*** of a "line," we can all get on Holland's case because ZOMG WE'RE NOT SERIOUS ABOUT WINNING. WHAT OTHER TEAM HAS THREE ENFORCERS AS THEIR FOURTH LINE? Dressing a fighter, in this day and age, is pretty much a waste. I get the argument for it, and I don't totally disagree. But, if John Scott is gonna take out Loui Eriksson, he's gonna do it. If James Neal is gonna knee Brad Marchand in the head, he's gonna do it. Having an enforcer just means you get to respond after the fact and make some kind of silly "statement" that doesn't really need to be made in the first place and isn't going to do much good. (ZOMG! Our guy who gets paid to take issue with transgressions takes issue with your transgression! What a statement!) Because, honestly, in all our years of not dressing an enforcer, how many times has a guy taken a clear-cut "run" at one of our soft Euro stars and badly injured him? We're talking, what, maybe five incidents? Which is probably at or below the league average over that span of time. Because, again, enforcers don't really deter. They just make "statements" after the fact. And then it happens again, and they get to make another "statement," after the fact. This isn't the '80s, guys. This isn't the Norris Division. There aren't 18 fights per game. Today's game is not nearly as rough-and-tumble and dirty. It's won mostly with speed and skill. Why are the Avalanche winning so much this season? Because they're fast and they can score in bunches (and their goalies have been great). We can't score to save our lives, so, if anything, we might actually need more skill. Certainly we need to be more fleet of foot. Not that I don't think we need to get tougher. We do. But we have to be reasonable about it. It has to be a change that'll help us win more games and ultimately win a Cup. Not something to make us feel like bigger men, because, ho ho ho, now we have a face-puncher to hide behind! That's how a man takes care of business! He hides behind a hired gun! I'd rather have more overall team toughness - though, again, we need to find a way to score more. So there has to be a balance. Not saying the two - skill and toughness - are mutually exclusive. I'm saying, basically, you can't just load up on one-dimensional tough guys and think it's going to make things a whole lot better, on any front. If it were up to me, I'd take a good look at Ott and Westgarth this summer. I'd almost never dress the latter, but I'd have him just in case things get ludicrous and an actual statement has to be made. Or I'd play him with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Because that'd be awesome. (Not being sarcastic.) As for Ott - he's a pain in the ass who's not afraid to mix it up, throw his weight around, drop the gloves. Ott and Westgarth. That might be a nice first baby step on the road to getting tougher as a team. I think most of it actually comes down to Babcock. He needs to preach a tougher, more aggressive and intense style. We generally play with no life, no oomph. Or, we'll have little flashes of intensity, but that's it. That has to change. We, as a team, have to bring it. Every shift, every game. We have to push the pace. We have to play to win, not to "not lose." We have to win those little battles that add up over 60 minutes. We have to be engaged and electric. I'd take all that over throwing three fighters into the mix.

I am still confused as to how Orpik was injured. I have watched the play 20 times. He doesn't hit his head on the ice, he doesn't get punched by anything more than short rabbit punches and his head doesn't appear to snap back at all. I don't think Orpik is faking it but what happened ? Also, if he gets 15 games why did Emery get zero ? That was an attack in my opinion.

Wonder what Mario L., Sindy C and the rest of this ***** organization promised Bettman and Shanahan for only giving Neal 5 games? If you giveThornton (first time offender) 15 there is no way that SOB named Neal can get away with 5. Can't wait, till some tough teams are going to take this crybabies by the horns and run Sindy + Malking out of the building. This coupled with the non suspension for that Flyers thug just makes so happy again knowing, that Shanahan will never ever hang at the in the rafters at the Joe. Guy completely sold himself out, no integrity at all.

Too much and Neal didn't get enough.