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Here is a good article on it. For those of you who aren't living in Grand Rapids or follow the Griffins, Cleary's leadership was a big reason why the Griffins did well. Bertuzzi's development was huge thanks to him as well. Yea, I get it, some Wings fans are upset with Cleary or hate him. Personally, I have no problems with him because he came to Grand Rapids and did what I expected him to do. Be a leader, work with the kids, and help bring the Calder Cup back to Grand Rapids. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/05/13/daniel-cleary-embraces-time-griffins-red-wings/101570054/

Pick up Brendan Smith at the deadline, buy out Girardi in the offseason. I bet most Wings fans didn't see that one coming.

Ironic, calling my post "over the top melodrama". For the record, I didn't mean that to be offensive. More just trying to point out that you seemed to be ignoring or unaware of certain realities. As for the false narrative; there is the persistent idea that young players don't get a fair chance here, always being held down by vets. Largely fueled by the perception that our kids are better than they really are and that our vets are worse, plus some confirmation bias, and a little exaggeration thrown in for good measure. We currently have 3 open forward spots, and 3 (some might argue 4) forwards in GR that could feasibly contribute in the NHL. Our vets, regardless of how middling and overpaid you think they are, aren't blocking anything (unless you want to count Frk). We average about 3 rookies per year seeing significant time. Assuming that continues (and why wouldn't it), we should assume that all our good kids will see significant time next year (and there will be new kids in GR that everyone will think are being held down). Just like not long ago when our overpaid middling players were themselves the kids everyone wanted. Circle of life. When you say we need to change our culture and bring up Pittsburgh, it implies that you don't know (or are willfully ignoring) the actual facts. We had more games played by rookies this year than Pittsburgh. How exactly are they doing something we aren't (pertaining to promoting young players)?

Never suggested that these guys are future top line guys, but I'm gonna get to the crux of my argument about guys like Nosek, Lil' Bert, and Frk (to a lesser extent) real quick-like... You don't build a playoff team with only first line players. Do we need to concentrate on the top-six? Drafting. Developing. Trading-for. Absolutely. Should we just poo-poo any bright spots in the bottom six? No way.

Yup, Holland should be fired if he loses a 3rd line forward / 3rd pairing defenseman in the expansion draft. Not because they're good players, but because they're cheap. Whoever we lose, won't be close to the top player Vegas picks up. Some teams will likely lose borderline top line forwards, top pair defensemen and starting goalies. But yeah, we should pay Vegas to take Howard (who is a starting caliber goalie) so we don't lose one of our 3rd string players... If we're paying Vegas to take a player it should not be Howard...

I thought you'd throw out Jeff Carter, then I could have said "How'd that work out for Columbus?". Victory! But you ruined it, thanks a lot. Burns doesn't quite fit, since it was a late 1st plus SJ got a 2nd back. I think the #9 plus Saarijarvi (or a similar prospect) is just too much to pay for what is a fairly minor upgrade over Tatar/Nyquist. It could be worth it in the right situation...if Duchene actually was the piece we thought would put us over the top...just not in our current situation. Short term it's only a small upgrade, plus probably pushes Larkin to the wing. Long term, assuming Duchene even stays around past UFA, I don't think it helps unless a lot of other things go well. But if things do go well, it removes a lot of the need for someone like Duchene. I get that center is a position of concern, and that he could potentially solidify our top-6 centers for many years. And sure, that'd be a good thing. Just not #9 + Nyquist good. Our 2nd instead would be worth it, and I'd do that if I was convinced that we couldn't get a defenseman. I would probably do the #9 alone, but that would have to come with a few extra moves to make the cap work. But I don't think trading Duchene for a forward makes sense for the Avs unless they're getting overpaid. Similarly I don't think it makes sense for us unless we're underpaying.

I see what you're saying kliq, but I really hope this is not what they see. Even if Mrazek is a guy who's always going to be a 1A/1B type goalie, you gotta keep him over Howie... If there's anyone on the team where we know "exactly what they are indicative of" it's Jimmy Howard. I don't think I need to regurgitate all the pros/cons of Howard, but for clarity's sake, I am not a guy who thinks we need to jettison Howard as quickly as possible or at any/all costs.

No. It would be stupid for him to do something like that. It's not as if Mrazek has claimed the throne as our number one. Expose Howard. Nothing more. Vegas will be selecting Fleury for their #1. It's practically written on the wall. If we're "paying" Vegas for anything it should be to take Ericsson off our hands. My guess is Helm is a goner.

Brent Burns was traded for a 45-point player plus a first-round pick plus a good prospect. Look, I don't have my heart set on Duchene. I don't think we're a Matt Duchene away from re-establishing ourselves as a perennial contender. I don't think we can magically fix all of our problems with one big trade. But I do think we have holes that are not easily filled (it's easier to find a 45-point winger than it is to find a 60-point centerman), and I do think that Duchene could, potentially, fill one of these holes right now and serve as a stepping stone for our rebuild. Our focus should be drafting and developing, but I don't want to live or die by it. I'd love to trade Tatar/Nyquist and a pick/prospect for a top D prospect like Fleury, but that and the hypothetical Duchene trade are probably equally unlikely to happen.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2017/06/14/ted-kulfan-projects-protected-unprotected-wings/102863326/ Ted Kulfan of The Detroit News projects us to protect Howard over Mrazek... Hopefully this is just his (dumb) opinion, not an inside scoop... He has us protecting... Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader, Mantha, Athanasiou - Pretty much exactly what we should expect. I'm fine with it. Green, DeKeyser, Jensen - Pretty much this. Jensen could be swapped for either Ouellet or Sproul and I'd be okay with it. Howard - If Howard is protected over Mrazek, Holland is a f***ing moron. I can't imagine this being the case though...

Yeah, but his presence in the lockerroom is most likely why the Griffins won, let alone made it out of the 1st round.

Not interested in forwards at all. I don't think swapping forwards will help us, unless it's a big upgrade like Duchene or more so Tavares, which I don't think we can do without selling the farm.

Here is a question for everyone.......If management feels that Mrazek was a flash in the pan and last season is exactly indicative of what he is, should the protect Howard and hope Mrazek gets taken? Because if this is the case, protecting Howard likely is the right move. I dont personally believe this, but if they do I can see their thought process.

No and I think the guys you mentioned will be great 4th line players for us. I've even advocated for them being up here instead of Glendening, Sheahan (I want him picked up by Vegas). But the Calder cup win in no way indicates we will somehow turn into a playoff contender because these players are champs. I'm not saying you implied that I'm saying a few people are hyping it up that way online (facebook, twitter etc)

Some of them might actually.

Umm... Both my original reply and my follow-up directly refuted the argument that our kids are being blocked by vets. In case it was lost amid my half-cocked, over-the-top melodramatics, I refuted it specifically by pointing out our current roster situation and citing recent history as evidence that your concerns weren't particularly warranted. But hey, I'll concede the 'false narrative' argument. I can't really prove you meant something. Instead I'll ask for some clarification so we can have some genuine discussion. If you were implying that Pittsburgh is doing something differently with their prospects, what exactly do you mean? And if you weren't implying that, what was your point in bringing up Pittsburgh? What specifically is this culture that needs to change? And if promoting kids from GR is the way to change it, how did it become stagnant when we promote kids from GR every year and why are our current kids any more likely to change it? And if you want to argue that your point was all about cost-cutting and getting rid of players, what specifically do our kids have to do with that, since we don't have enough good kids to both fill out the rest of the roster and replace the players you mention?

I agree with this. I do think Bert and Svechnikov would both be best suited playing top line minutes in Grand Rapids instead of bottom 6 minutes in the NHL. As for Frk, he really did very well for the Griffins, but I don't know if he is NHL material. There is a reason why the Wings put him on waivers, Carolina picked him up, and then put him back on waivers for us to grab again. We have to give him a shot, because if we don't, someone else will. I just don't know. He was a key piece to the Griffins this year though. Oh, and I want another full season for Hicketts as well in the AHL.

Reading into some things: McPhee talked at the combine about how he was talking to other GMs about who they wanted to protect, contracts they wanted to dump, players Vegas likes, etc. The implication being that teams have a decent idea about what's going to happen. Nothing set in stone of course, but a general notion. Kenny says he's talked to pretty much everyone, and one of the main reasons is trying to move a goalie. Also says he isn't making a deal with Vegas. Putting all that together it sounds like Kenny believes Vegas has some interest in our goalies, possibly because McPhee told him.

It could always be that he doesn't want to lose leverage by saying they'd like to make a trade. He also said he wouldn't trade assets to protect anyone, he didn't say they wouldn't trade assets to get rid of someone. Just playing devils advocate.

I'd be okay if Nosek is the only kid that makes the team in October. Both Svechnikov and Bertuzzi could use a little more time down in Grand Rapids. They will both be up at some point when the inevitable injuries hit. I'd also like Frk on the team, even if it's as the 13th forward. I'm also excited to see Hicketts, but he may see another full season down in GR before he gets a look.

There were only 31 players that averaged 3 shots per game this year and only 7 PPG guys. If those are the marks for success for an AHL prospect, then you will be disappointed by almost all. I would be very happy if we get 4 players of the caliber of DK, Tats, Goose, and Mraz off of this current Calder winning team. (you can throw in a Glendening too for good measure) As for the missing elite talent, we'll have to hope on some of our soon to come high picks and the continued development of Larkin, Mantha, AA, Mrazek, Svech, etc. Anyway, congrats to the Griffins. Having a strong AHL affiliate to develop guys can only be a positive. Build a winning culture and get prospects playing the system at a high level.

On June 21st there's going to be like 50 trades announced. Then there will be Holland with no trades like...

Dan Cleary never stops winning.

The dream